OK, we're gettng a little annoyed here!

[Driddle]

We're barraged with complaints that we're creating an anti-4E forum from those who like it. We're barraged with complaints that we're "anti-grognard" from those who don't. Somehow we're both.

That is SO true! You don't hate only one side or the other -- you hate everyone equally! I don't know how you do it, but your moderating skills have evolved beyond mere good and evil and attained a sort of simultaneous dichotomy that can only be described as gawd-like. It's awesome. Keep it up!




... Oh. :\ My wife just explained what you meant.

Huh. I thought it was something people would appreciate. I do.

 

[Driddle]

OK, upon reading the thread more closely....

Judging by the past few months, some people's Grandmas are backstabbing bitter old women who cuss like drunken rock stars on a one-nighter.

I agree with the sentiment, though. Personally, I'd love to see people with not only an extra ounce of civility, but also slightly thicker skins, and a willingness to give one another a little benefit of the doubt that they aren't the only smart person among morons or something.

Henry gets my vote. I'd support either a Henry/Pirate-Cat ticket for '08 or a Pirate-Cat/Henry ticket.

I also am for civility and thicker skin: Stop being mean and stop assuming someone else is being mean. Because once people stop being so edgy, maybe they'll rediscover their sense of humor.

(And by the way, both of my grandmas are dead. Makes me a little sad for someone to suggest that I pretend they've come to dinner.)

 

[Remathilis]

Or, rather, #3 stated his opinion. What's wrong with that? Some may disagree with it, but so what? If everyone held the same opinion, we'd have threads with one opening post and twelve thousand me too's.

I think its the poster's implication that "4e will be badwrongfun and you'd have to be a moron not to see it."

 

[Horacio]

My take on the subject :

Before posting, try to think if you would say it face to face. If you wouldn't say it face to face, don't post it.

In the doubt, also think that face to face interlocutor is a friend of a frind, somebody you wouldn't want to offend.

That is, act as you would do in a social evening party.

If everybody did it, most problems would stop, IMHO...

 

[Maggan]

This is an honest question:

How many posters are part of the problem?

Is it a group of 5? Or 10? Or is it widespread, with hundreds participating in bringing EN World down?

The reason I'm asking is that there has to be different solutions depending on what/who is the major part of the problem. If the negativity and hostility are perpetuated by say five people on each side cranking out their posts, riling people up, the solution would be to talk to these people individually about their posting habits.

If there are hundreds of people to blame, it becomes a different problem, with a different solution, for example by banning threadcrappers for a week with no warning, at the mods discretion. That would have a negative effect on the boards, sure, but it would make sure that people thought their posts through a couple of times before posting.

/M

 

[Imaro]

Well I'll throw in a thought...humor, it's totallyy subjective and requires a context that can be hard to convey on the internet. On top of that it's a totally subjective thing. In the post by Henry...

Correct. Threadcrapping is something like:

Poster 1: I think 4E Wizards sound great! Can't wait to play one!
Poster 2: I can't stand those implements ideas! Where are my wizards with no reliance on material components?
Poster 3: Apparently, they're locked away, along with any shred of material that would make a decent game.

Guess who's the one we'll be saying a word to above?

Number 3 could be interpreted as mean-spirited or he could be having a go at sarcastic humor. I have seen numerous (though not all) "humor" threads which could easily be interpreted as either sarcastic but ultimately harmless ribbing or as thinly veiled insults against other opinions. My thing is it becomes unbalanced because some are totally acceptable to the mods while others aren't and I don't think there is clear cut definition about what is and isn't going to get you in trouble.

I do think that it's easier for people on these boards to dish it than to take it, but in the end it's just a game and unless the person is insulting you personally (and no, I'm not talking about what may or may not be implied...since again that is totally subjective) people maybe should get some thicker skins about what is ultimately just a hobby/company/game. Just my .02

 

[Cadfan]

I'm interested. Why do you think

a) civility rules
b) presuming everyones opinion has at least some merit
c) presuming there are two sides to an issue

encourages antisocial behaviour?

It seems to me that those three things are conducive to polite, rational, intelligent discussion - and in fact the lack of those three elements would hugely encourage antisocial behaviour.

So could you explain your opinion here?

Thanks

Certainly.

There are more types of trolling than mere insults. There is concern trolling, contrarian trolling, and a whole host of others. Some of them function by carefully not crossing the line in terms of insults, while still mindlessly repeating obnoxious, unthoughtful comments, with the intention of annoying. The fact that no explicit rules are being violated protects the troll, and the culture of presuming that there are two sides to an issue and that other's opinions must have some merit gives the troll moral high ground to demand equal treatment with other non-trolls, even as the trolls irrational comments, crocodile tears at alleged mistreatment, and astounding stamina in posting the same thing over and over even after it has been more than adequately dismissed, drag the forum into the ditch.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1032102

Consider reading that guide to the trolls of the internet.

 

[Tiew]

Stop being fair about bans. Make them public, arbitrary, and random. Just grab any somewhat uncivil person you see, temp band them, make it public you temp banned them, and don't give any justification for why they deserved it more than the other somewhat uncivil people.

This is kind of how China accomplishes the almost impossible goal of censoring the internet. Rather than come up with an official list of bad sites, they arbitrarily send people to jail. This causes all the ISPs to very diligently self-censor.

The point is if there are clear lines you can always go right up to them and play around. If there aren't, and you know you could be punished unfairly, you'll stay as far away as you can.

 

[Driddle]

There are more types of trolling ... etc.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1032102

Consider reading that guide to the trolls of the internet.

The mods in this thread aren't addressing "trolling" by itself, but rather civility and decency in general. If you really want to bolster the "troll" tangent, I would bring back the focus to an introductory line of that link you referenced: "Trolls delight in sowing discord on the forums." Too many people are quick to jump to the conclusion that the other guy is trying to cause problems. P-Sail takes the high road in three points ...

a) civility rules
b) presuming everyones opinion has at least some merit
c) presuming there are two sides to an issue

... to give the poster the benefit of the doubt, rather than ascribe malicious intent. It's a very even-handed attitude, and I applaud it. Even if the post in question has no obvious merit (subjectively), the three-point P-Sail position helps us to avoid a default negative interpretation and nasty reaction.

 

[helium3]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1032102

Consider reading that guide to the trolls of the internet.

I have to agree with Cadfan here. Like I said in my earlier post, all of the useless "opinion clutter" has been my main source of irritation lately, but he's got a good point. A lot of the bad behavior does seem like trolling that's been softened just enough to not provoke the ire of the mods.

Course, now that I've read his link, I'm worried I might secretly be a troll and not even know it.