Old 2e Module Flavor

[Alcareru]

Ive been looking thru some old TSR 2e modules while brainstorming for an upcoming campaign. Im struck at how many of these used deception type spells as a plot device or hook. For instance villains often used veil, invisible, ploymorph, etc to either gain the PCs confidence, to trick then and join their party or to give them a false lead while diguised as an ally. It just seems I see it again and again.

Another thing that hits me is how hard it would be to conver these modules no d20. Most of these sneaky spells have been totally changed or nerfed so an evil beholder cant run around a major city disguised magically as a young girl.

Just a thought.Any other thoughts on converting 2e stuff to 3.5?

 

[the Jester]

Yeah... keep in mind that the assumption in 1e-2e was that 10th-14th level was really as high as anyone got. In 2e, 14th level was epic.

For instance, I'm running a heavily modified version of Return to the Tomb of Horrors for my (edging into epic-level) group...

In 2e, it was for level 12-16 characters. In 3e, a demilich is around CR 29, winterwights are CR 23, etc. It's a whole different ballgame.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Most of these sneaky spells have been totally changed or nerfed so an evil beholder cant run around a major city disguised magically as a young girl.

If not Polymorph, why not Alter Self? Or a custom "better version"?

In 3e, a demilich is around CR 29, winterwights are CR 23, etc.

Where can I find a winterwight?

 

[Alcareru]

If not Polymorph, why not Alter Self? Or a custom "better version"?

I dunno Ive never liked the whole "the bad guy was the one who sent you on the quest" hook. And I feel wrong creating custom specialized versions of spells for a specific plot purpose. If I use a disguised villain, Id like the Pcs to have a chance to find out /shrug.

It just struck me as odd that it was used so much-or so it seemed to me.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Where can I find a winterwight?

In the ELH, or in the epic section of the SRD.

 

[Alzrius]

Ive been looking thru some old TSR 2e modules while brainstorming for an upcoming campaign. Im struck at how many of these used deception type spells as a plot device or hook. For instance villains often used veil, invisible, ploymorph, etc to either gain the PCs confidence, to trick then and join their party or to give them a false lead while diguised as an ally. It just seems I see it again and again.

Really? I didn't think a lot of the generic (that is, non-world specific) 2E modules were like that at all. Labyrinth of Madness, Temple, Tower, & Tomb, The Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga, Reverse Dungeon, The Shattered Circle, just to name a few, had plot hooks that didn't involve this.

Another thing that hits me is how hard it would be to conver these modules [t]o d20. Most of these sneaky spells have been totally changed or nerfed so an evil beholder cant run around a major city disguised magically as a young girl.

Maybe I'm out of touch, but the spells to disguise oneself seem pretty well preserved from their 2E counterparts. What's changed is that its a lot easier to overcome them now; you have Knowledge (arcana) checks, spot checks, Will saves against illusions, more detection spells, etc. to break through those spells.

Just a thought.Any other thoughts on converting 2e stuff to 3.5?

I think that converting between editions gets easier as time goes on, since this gives the new edition more time to bring forward stuff from the old one (like the aforementioned winter wights). Beyond that, some restructuring is necessary, as trying to directly convert modules from 2E to 3.5E will often result in a widely-varying set of Encounter Levels in an adventure.

 

[Alcareru]

Really? I didn't think a lot of the generic (that is, non-world specific) 2E modules were like that at all. Labyrinth of Madness, Temple, Tower, & Tomb, The Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga, Reverse Dungeon, The Shattered Circle, just to name a few, had plot hooks that didn't involve this.



Maybe I'm out of touch, but the spells to disguise oneself seem pretty well preserved from their 2E counterparts. What's changed is that its a lot easier to overcome them now; you have Knowledge (arcana) checks, spot checks, Will saves against illusions, more detection spells, etc. to break through those spells.



I think that converting between editions gets easier as time goes on, since this gives the new edition more time to bring forward stuff from the old one (like the aforementioned winter wights). Beyond that, some restructuring is necessary, as trying to directly convert modules from 2E to 3.5E will often result in a widely-varying set of Encounter Levels in an adventure.

Youre right about the non generic modules. I guess im rferring to some of the very late circa 95ish Monstrous Arcana modules where monsters diguise themselves. Im sure its not representative of 2e as a total.

As far as overcoming such spells, apart from the actual duration of spells, (which seem to have shortened) there are alot more tools for players to utilize against such things.

Just strikes me as interesting how the overall feel of the editions is sometimes hard to recreate when converting.

 

[Melan]

As long as you include plenty of boxed set, you can easily recreate a great many of the worse 2e modules. ... But do you really want to?

 

[Alcareru]

As long as you include plenty of boxed set, you can easily recreate a great many of the worse 2e modules. ... But do you really want to?

LOL good point.