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WOIN Old, Now, New - which is most popular?

Emerikol

Adventurer
So I was just curious who all are playing this system and which flavor is the most popular? Now if you are using O.L.D. to handle some aspects of your N.E.W. game then you are playing N.E.W. in my opinion.

I get the impression from drive through that N.E.W. is the most popular. I know it is the one I bought the hardback for from the start. I do own the pdfs of the others though.

Any thoughts? Maybe @Morrus will weigh in?
 

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Emerikol

Adventurer
Awesome! Thanks for answering.

I think science fiction is the second most popular genre for gaming and a lot of people play one of the really big boys like D&D for fantasy. So that might explain it. I was surprised to see how much support there was on drive thru though. So good job on that. I'm going to have to pick some of this N.E.W. stuff up.
 


Emerikol

Adventurer
I used to own all the Top Secret stuff but it never seemed to work well as a group game. I would think if you have a really small group it could work better. So if you had one or two players and a GM then a moderns game might be better.

Now if you were playing an exploration game using N.E.W. then owning the others like N.O.W. and O.L.D. can help for populating planets that aren't at a high tech level. Think Star Trek type exploration.
 

13rett

Explorer
In the games I've run the first was a campaign that was thematically closest to NOW but used parts of all 3 as it was a modern day world which had dungeon entrances (the magic gem absorbs some spacial area and spawns monsters and stuff to lure in victerrr adventurers) that lined to OLD style magic worlds and NEW style systems. Then a couple of (primarily) OLD one shots.
 

Emerikol

Adventurer
In the games I've run the first was a campaign that was thematically closest to NOW but used parts of all 3 as it was a modern day world which had dungeon entrances (the magic gem absorbs some spacial area and spawns monsters and stuff to lure in victerrr adventurers) that lined to OLD style magic worlds and NEW style systems. Then a couple of (primarily) OLD one shots.
Yeah. That is the beauty of a universal system. If you want to play Urban fantasy you can take the magic from O.L.D. and use it in N.O.W. That would work also if you wanted a more fantasy themed science fiction game with N.E.W.

It is a big advantage to have all three games which is why I bought the others as pdf just in case.
 

MacD

Just a tourist passing your way...
I dm both NEW and OLD with a touch of Chi from NOW as one of my OLD players doesn't want to read the magic rules (also he plays a martial artist so it's a great synergie anyway).

In NEW my party seems to be much weaker for fighting; I think it's all about equipment.
I like space fights but don't really get into the rules so far (only had three space encounters so far); it feels like you never get your enemy into range. Eventually it's better with specialized characters.

But I agree, NEW feels best, OLD feels very good (I don't like D&D anymore for its lack of character customization). NOW seems ok but I don't use it so far as modern isn't our setting.
 

Emerikol

Adventurer
I dm both NEW and OLD with a touch of Chi from NOW as one of my OLD players doesn't want to read the magic rules (also he plays a martial artist so it's a great synergie anyway).

In NEW my party seems to be much weaker for fighting; I think it's all about equipment.
I like space fights but don't really get into the rules so far (only had three space encounters so far); it feels like you never get your enemy into range. Eventually it's better with specialized characters.

But I agree, NEW feels best, OLD feels very good (I don't like D&D anymore for its lack of character customization). NOW seems ok but I don't use it so far as modern isn't our setting.
I'm not of the school that thinks most popular is best. Unless someone means best for the company selling the product. I think N.E.W. competes in a space (forgive the pun) that is less competitive and for which the style of the game is more popular. I like the games and they are similar enough that they are compatible. Morris is competing directly with GURPS in many ways. Though the game has a more interesting character generation process in my opinion which I like. I also like the way skill advancement works a lot.
 

Emerikol

Adventurer
I'm always hoping NOW will get more popular. Current day modern genre RPGs are always a mere fraction of the overall RPG market. :(
I think it is wide open as a market but traditionally hasn't been strong without some extras tossed in. Still if you wanted to play something like Vampire or Urban Fantasy using the system, then the N.O.W. rules would be essential.
 

Emerikol

Adventurer
I'm always hoping NOW will get more popular. Current day modern genre RPGs are always a mere fraction of the overall RPG market. :(
I think another limitation on games involving larger groups of 4 or 5 players and a GM is that the genre doesn't always fit. I mean you could play a military team I suppose but often a lot of the storyline would be PCs acting independent of each other. Going around as a group is less explainable. Whereas with space and fantasy groups fit pretty easily into the concept.

What I think is the miss is that we need some games for fewer players. We don't always have a large group so a GM with 2 players could really think about modern stuff because then it fits and can be richer.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I'm not of the school that thinks most popular is best. Unless someone means best for the company selling the product. I think N.E.W. competes in a space (forgive the pun) that is less competitive and for which the style of the game is more popular. I like the games and they are similar enough that they are compatible. Morris is competing directly with GURPS in many ways. Though the game has a more interesting character generation process in my opinion which I like. I also like the way skill advancement works a lot.
I think NEW is my favourite of the three. Though it’s close!
 

TheHirumaChico

Explorer
I think another limitation on games involving larger groups of 4 or 5 players and a GM is that the genre doesn't always fit. I mean you could play a military team I suppose but often a lot of the storyline would be PCs acting independent of each other. Going around as a group is less explainable. Whereas with space and fantasy groups fit pretty easily into the concept.

What I think is the miss is that we need some games for fewer players. We don't always have a large group so a GM with 2 players could really think about modern stuff because then it fits and can be richer.
I think more rules ideas for character abilities that can help deal with being numerically disadvantaged, like the Asymmetric Advantage and Asymmetric Adept exploits for the Capoeira Martial Arts career on p. 57 of the N.O.W. Core Rulebook, could make small agent teams more effective. Just making the characters higher level does not mean they can deal with inferior quality but numerically superior opponents in combat.

Also, fewer agents on a team means you need characters who can wear more than one hat for non-combat challenges, so they may dilute their other skill sets for the sake of becoming more widely skilled for missions. Perhaps there are also ways to make the career/skill choice diversity better for small agent teams like cutting back on career prerequisites? That's something I might consider house-ruling in my game at some point. I have 3 players now, which is on the edge of optimal, but if I wind up with fewer at some point then I might consider this option. Just thinking as I type, so not sure that's necessarily a good direction, but I know it's an issue that a 4-5 agent team doesn't face as much because you can get one character more specialized and very effective within their niche than a 1-2 agent team can.
 

TheHirumaChico

Explorer
Of course, in thinking just a few moments longer, automatic weapons certainly level the playing field when it comes to dealing with numerically superior opponents. Though that could mean missions tend to go loud more often, which sort of nullifies the stealthier mission-type options that a smaller agent team could tackle more effectively.

machine gun lol GIF by Justin Gammon
 

Emerikol

Adventurer
I think NEW is my favourite of the three. Though it’s close!
I think a fusion of N.E.W. and N.O.W. would be a good fit for a Numenera style world too. I think there is a lot of fusion along the edges more than one would have considered in the past.
 

Emerikol

Adventurer
I think more rules ideas for character abilities that can help deal with being numerically disadvantaged, like the Asymmetric Advantage and Asymmetric Adept exploits for the Capoeira Martial Arts career on p. 57 of the N.O.W. Core Rulebook, could make small agent teams more effective. Just making the characters higher level does not mean they can deal with inferior quality but numerically superior opponents in combat.

Also, fewer agents on a team means you need characters who can wear more than one hat for non-combat challenges, so they may dilute their other skill sets for the sake of becoming more widely skilled for missions. Perhaps there are also ways to make the career/skill choice diversity better for small agent teams like cutting back on career prerequisites? That's something I might consider house-ruling in my game at some point. I have 3 players now, which is on the edge of optimal, but if I wind up with fewer at some point then I might consider this option. Just thinking as I type, so not sure that's necessarily a good direction, but I know it's an issue that a 4-5 agent team doesn't face as much because you can get one character more specialized and very effective within their niche than a 1-2 agent team can.
Yeah I was thinking a James Bond kind of spy scenario for N.O.W. but that would perhaps require a power boost before the game starts to work.

One thing that could work is perhaps being criminals. You are an organized crime gang. Even then though there is a lot of time when a PC might be doing something alone.
 

Emerikol

Adventurer
I think NEW is my favourite of the three. Though it’s close!
Based on all the support you've done for it I think I might have guessed.

I am fascinated you did a Sol star map. Great idea. I will pick that up. To be honest, I didn't have players and COVID hit so I haven't looked at the game lately but it looks like there is a LOT of good stuff out there. Good work!

Edit:
Quick question. The SolSpace line of modules etc... does that use that Sol map?
 

MacD

Just a tourist passing your way...
I think more rules ideas for character abilities that can help deal with being numerically disadvantaged, like the Asymmetric Advantage and Asymmetric Adept exploits for the Capoeira Martial Arts career on p. 57 of the N.O.W. Core Rulebook, could make small agent teams more effective. Just making the characters higher level does not mean they can deal with inferior quality but numerically superior opponents in combat.

Also, fewer agents on a team means you need characters who can wear more than one hat for non-combat challenges, so they may dilute their other skill sets for the sake of becoming more widely skilled for missions. Perhaps there are also ways to make the career/skill choice diversity better for small agent teams like cutting back on career prerequisites? That's something I might consider house-ruling in my game at some point. I have 3 players now, which is on the edge of optimal, but if I wind up with fewer at some point then I might consider this option. Just thinking as I type, so not sure that's necessarily a good direction, but I know it's an issue that a 4-5 agent team doesn't face as much because you can get one character more specialized and very effective within their niche than a 1-2 agent team can.
WOIN already offers very broad characters; for small groups in organisations I'd recommend a special career construct like the space force character building system (EONS, NEW (spartan gambit)) which offers more skill points via curriculum exploits;
additionally I'd add a third action for the player characters.
 

delericho

Legend
I have N.E.W. and O.L.D. in hardback, and N.O.W. in PDF (I think). I preferred N.E.W. to O.L.D., and must admit I've never even looked at N.O.W., mostly because I'm not keen on reading large blocks of text in electronic form.

I've never had opportunity to actually run any of them, nor do I expect to in the foreseeable future.
 

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