WOIN Old, Now, New - which is most popular?

[Emerikol]

I'm always hoping NOW will get more popular. Current day modern genre RPGs are always a mere fraction of the overall RPG market.

I think another limitation on games involving larger groups of 4 or 5 players and a GM is that the genre doesn't always fit. I mean you could play a military team I suppose but often a lot of the storyline would be PCs acting independent of each other. Going around as a group is less explainable. Whereas with space and fantasy groups fit pretty easily into the concept.

What I think is the miss is that we need some games for fewer players. We don't always have a large group so a GM with 2 players could really think about modern stuff because then it fits and can be richer.

 

[Morrus]

I'm not of the school that thinks most popular is best. Unless someone means best for the company selling the product. I think N.E.W. competes in a space (forgive the pun) that is less competitive and for which the style of the game is more popular. I like the games and they are similar enough that they are compatible. Morris is competing directly with GURPS in many ways. Though the game has a more interesting character generation process in my opinion which I like. I also like the way skill advancement works a lot.

I think NEW is my favourite of the three. Though it’s close!

 

[TheHirumaChico]

I think another limitation on games involving larger groups of 4 or 5 players and a GM is that the genre doesn't always fit. I mean you could play a military team I suppose but often a lot of the storyline would be PCs acting independent of each other. Going around as a group is less explainable. Whereas with space and fantasy groups fit pretty easily into the concept.

What I think is the miss is that we need some games for fewer players. We don't always have a large group so a GM with 2 players could really think about modern stuff because then it fits and can be richer.

I think more rules ideas for character abilities that can help deal with being numerically disadvantaged, like the Asymmetric Advantage and Asymmetric Adept exploits for the Capoeira Martial Arts career on p. 57 of the N.O.W. Core Rulebook, could make small agent teams more effective. Just making the characters higher level does not mean they can deal with inferior quality but numerically superior opponents in combat.

Also, fewer agents on a team means you need characters who can wear more than one hat for non-combat challenges, so they may dilute their other skill sets for the sake of becoming more widely skilled for missions. Perhaps there are also ways to make the career/skill choice diversity better for small agent teams like cutting back on career prerequisites? That's something I might consider house-ruling in my game at some point. I have 3 players now, which is on the edge of optimal, but if I wind up with fewer at some point then I might consider this option. Just thinking as I type, so not sure that's necessarily a good direction, but I know it's an issue that a 4-5 agent team doesn't face as much because you can get one character more specialized and very effective within their niche than a 1-2 agent team can.

 

[TheHirumaChico]

Of course, in thinking just a few moments longer, automatic weapons certainly level the playing field when it comes to dealing with numerically superior opponents. Though that could mean missions tend to go loud more often, which sort of nullifies the stealthier mission-type options that a smaller agent team could tackle more effectively.

 

[Emerikol]

I think NEW is my favourite of the three. Though it’s close!

I think a fusion of N.E.W. and N.O.W. would be a good fit for a Numenera style world too. I think there is a lot of fusion along the edges more than one would have considered in the past.

 

[Emerikol]

I think more rules ideas for character abilities that can help deal with being numerically disadvantaged, like the Asymmetric Advantage and Asymmetric Adept exploits for the Capoeira Martial Arts career on p. 57 of the N.O.W. Core Rulebook, could make small agent teams more effective. Just making the characters higher level does not mean they can deal with inferior quality but numerically superior opponents in combat.

Also, fewer agents on a team means you need characters who can wear more than one hat for non-combat challenges, so they may dilute their other skill sets for the sake of becoming more widely skilled for missions. Perhaps there are also ways to make the career/skill choice diversity better for small agent teams like cutting back on career prerequisites? That's something I might consider house-ruling in my game at some point. I have 3 players now, which is on the edge of optimal, but if I wind up with fewer at some point then I might consider this option. Just thinking as I type, so not sure that's necessarily a good direction, but I know it's an issue that a 4-5 agent team doesn't face as much because you can get one character more specialized and very effective within their niche than a 1-2 agent team can.

Yeah I was thinking a James Bond kind of spy scenario for N.O.W. but that would perhaps require a power boost before the game starts to work.

One thing that could work is perhaps being criminals. You are an organized crime gang. Even then though there is a lot of time when a PC might be doing something alone.

 

[Emerikol]

I think NEW is my favourite of the three. Though it’s close!

Based on all the support you've done for it I think I might have guessed.

I am fascinated you did a Sol star map. Great idea. I will pick that up. To be honest, I didn't have players and COVID hit so I haven't looked at the game lately but it looks like there is a LOT of good stuff out there. Good work!

Edit:
Quick question. The SolSpace line of modules etc... does that use that Sol map?

 

[MacD]

I think more rules ideas for character abilities that can help deal with being numerically disadvantaged, like the Asymmetric Advantage and Asymmetric Adept exploits for the Capoeira Martial Arts career on p. 57 of the N.O.W. Core Rulebook, could make small agent teams more effective. Just making the characters higher level does not mean they can deal with inferior quality but numerically superior opponents in combat.

Also, fewer agents on a team means you need characters who can wear more than one hat for non-combat challenges, so they may dilute their other skill sets for the sake of becoming more widely skilled for missions. Perhaps there are also ways to make the career/skill choice diversity better for small agent teams like cutting back on career prerequisites? That's something I might consider house-ruling in my game at some point. I have 3 players now, which is on the edge of optimal, but if I wind up with fewer at some point then I might consider this option. Just thinking as I type, so not sure that's necessarily a good direction, but I know it's an issue that a 4-5 agent team doesn't face as much because you can get one character more specialized and very effective within their niche than a 1-2 agent team can.

WOIN already offers very broad characters; for small groups in organisations I'd recommend a special career construct like the space force character building system (EONS, NEW (spartan gambit)) which offers more skill points via curriculum exploits;
additionally I'd add a third action for the player characters.

 

[delericho]

I have N.E.W. and O.L.D. in hardback, and N.O.W. in PDF (I think). I preferred N.E.W. to O.L.D., and must admit I've never even looked at N.O.W., mostly because I'm not keen on reading large blocks of text in electronic form.

I've never had opportunity to actually run any of them, nor do I expect to in the foreseeable future.