Old revisions thread (ignore)

[Karanaj]

Re: Re: Compiled 3.5 Revisions

If you're using a tripping weapon, and would be tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon instead

does the decision to drop the weapon come before or after the counter trip attack is resolved? (come to think of it, i'm not sure of the answer to this in 3e either :shrug

~NegZ

Seems to me that your question is answered in the quote you gave. It says "would be tripped" which, to me, means that the counter attempt has already succeeded (you WOULD be tripped if you didn't drop the weapon)

 

[CrimsonTemplar]

More summarized Andy Collins tidbits:

- The power of tanglefoot bags has been reduced (mechanics unspecified).

Sux if you live in Giant occupied lands.

- Heward's Handy Haversack’s utility has been clarified (it's not a free action to pull things out, but a move action that doesn't provoke AoOs, since you don't have to dig around in it).

That's better. Those things are annoying.

- Quaal's feather token: tree doesn't kill monsters by exploding them from inside.

So....they're just more regular because of the extra fiber in their diet?

 

[Felon]

Re: Spell Focus

Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus at +2 aren't really broke. What broke was when WotC removed the Spell Focus effect from Wizard school specialization to give spellcasters something useful to do with feat mechanics. What's broke is that people specialize in Divination and give up Necromancy (to get an extra spell slot at each spell level while giving up little in return)

Give up little in return? You mean like all the really cool stuff clerics have to give up in order to get a bonus domain spell per level (not to mention two free domain powers)?

Newsflash: the wizard who specialized in Divination isn't exactly getting a lot, so why should he give up a lot?

and then take Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in Evocation. If Spell Focus had a prerequisite like "Specialization in the chosen school", this kind of change would be unneeded.

Uggh. The wizard doesn't need more handicaps, folks. He pays the piper plenty for those fireballs.

 

[Felon]

I dunno. Some people on NKL are bringing up a very compelling point. It seems like many of the classes are being "dungeon optomized" that don't really need to be. I worry that they might be overdoing the druid. What the class needs is flexibility, not raw power, but from the sounds of it, it sounds like they will be getting the latter.

Damn disturbing. What the druid needed was a role within the average party, rather than a half-arsed hodgepodge of other classes roles (healing, scouting, nuking, etc). I always saw the druid as being the buffmaster extraordinaire; the one guy you could go to for a bull's strength or cat's grace, or a barkskin or stoneskin.

That, and they seriously need to lose the lame wooden weapon/armor restrictions that discourage multi-classing. You want them to use wooden shields and scythes and sickles and slings? Just limit their weapon proficiences appropriately. Monks and rogues and clerics don't seem to have a problem wielding a greatsword--be it spiritual or practical--once they've taken a fighter level.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Don't get excited about the druid until you see him.

More tidbits:

Druid animal companions: The animal companion rules have changed; it's no longer purely a "HD = level" link. (There's a lot more to it than that, of course.) Since an awakened animal isn't an animal any more (it's a magical beast), it won't be able to serve as an animal companion (or a familiar or paladin's mount, for that matter). Such a creature could still be included in the party as a cohort (using the Leadership feat, for example), or simply as an NPC ally

 

[Felon]

The only examples in the magazine with HIPS are Rog10/Asn8 multi-classes.

The next comparable character is a Rog7, which doesn't have the ability -- so while it could be a rogue special ability at 8-10, I think it's more likely it is an Assassin ability.

Right, as far as those characters are concerned anyway. HiPS would also fit in nicely as one of the rogues' special abilities that he selects at 10th, 13th, 17th, and 20th level.

Then again, equipment isn't listed for those characters either. Could very well be an item that grants them that ability. Come to think of the, The Two Towers film gives us an excellent example of two hobbits hiding from orcs in plain sight using their elven cloaks.

 

[Felon]

One thing I definitely have bad feelings about is the feat Improved Grapple. Ed Stark said in his Mortality.Net interview that players would be given more options for defending themselves against grappling. If this is the same Improved Grapple that's featured in Urban Arcanna, then I sure hope this isn't what he was talking about, since it just makes monsters that have this feat way more of a pain in the ass than they were before.

For those that haven't seen UA, the Improved Grapple feat eliminates the AoO provoked by the touch attack required to initiate a grapple. Eliminates it outright; no penalties, no tradeoffs, no mitigating factors. Just go ahead and snatch up that pesky PC you Huge monster with the +30 grapple bonus. Oh, AND it gives the attacker a +4 bonus on all grapple checks, so make that a 34.

This is much worse than the Improved Grab ability ever was. At the very least, the Close Quarters Combat feat from Sword & Fist should've been included with the PHB as well (which is the best defense out there against Improved Grab, but of course doesn't make any mention of Improved Grapple so unless WotC makes specific mention of it at some point that'll have to be a GM's call).

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Why is Improved Grapple such a problem?

All if the Improved ____ feats will eliminate the attack of opportunity for that special attack, and if the trends with Improve Trip & Disarm continue, likely grant a +4 bonus as well. It's a consistent mechanic, and results in a viable unarmed combat ability. Improved grab lets a melee attack that succeeds (and deals damage) start a grapple as a free action; this effectively trades that damage for a touch attack (and the grapple from Improved Grab didn't cause a AoO anyway) -- so I fail to see how this is worse.

 

[Felon]

Why is Improved Grapple such a problem? All if the Improved ____ feats will eliminate the attack of opportunity for that special attack, and if the trends with Improve Trip & Disarm continue, likely grant a +4 bonus as well.

Oh, there are many reasons. In general, being grappled by a foe that has a significantly better grapple check than you (as is often the case with monsters because of size bonuses) is more debilitating than those other special attacks you menition. That's why grapple checks automatically fail if the AoO hits, while the others proceed despite the AoO's results.

Disarm and sunder require opposed attack rolls, which provide much more of a level playing field then grapple checks; the warrior classes should at least be able to hold their own against these attacks.

Disarm, trip, and bull rush provide only a momentary benefit. The victim's next action will allow him to recover or at least move away. You can pick up your weapon, stand up, move, etc. Even if some of those actions provokes another AoO, you're free to do what you will. And a sunder's effects are even more unnoticeable provided the weapon doesn't break. If it does, you again at least have the option to try to get away from a bad situation. A grapple lasts until you can escape or your opponent lets go.

Worst of all, an easy grapple is an easy pin, and pinned is not a placed any PC wants to be.

At any rate, if a feat adds a +4 to Disarm, Trip, or Sunder attempt, then I do indeed also lump those into the "bad feat" category. A +4 is too big of a bonus.

It's a consistent mechanic, and results in a viable unarmed combat ability.

Yes, in the case of Improved Grapple, very viable. In the case of certain creatures with that feat, decidedly too viable.

Improved grab lets a melee attack that succeeds (and deals damage) start a grapple as a free action; this effectively trades that damage for a touch attack (and the grapple from Improved Grab didn't cause a AoO anyway) -- so I fail to see how this is worse. [/B]

Lol, I know I wasn't hallucinating all the people on these board discussing what a problem Improved Grab was...Not just the whiners neither...

Now, because Improved Grapple is a feat, it can be attached to any critter.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Added some Dragon 309 info (much of which still requires clarification).