'Old School' Experiences with D&D 3.5

[Melkor]

Hi folks,

I often hear it argued that if you want 'Old School', you shouldn't play D&D 3.5, but should play Basic, 1st Edition, Hackmaster, or Castles & Crusades.

I recently picked up "The Wurst of Grimtooth's Traps", and was reading the intro section regarding how 3rd Edition had relegated a lot of the fun regarding discovering and disarming traps to a simple dice roll mechanic (and they introduce a couple of suggestions to get around that).

I've played several of the Necromancer games modules, that just didn't quite hit the 'Old School' spot....I've got a couple of the Goodman Games' modules, and they seem pretty spot on.

I'm trying to put together a D&D 3.5 game for a few friends (who play it exclusively), and I want to go completely 'Old School'.

With all of the people who say it just can't be done, I am looking for stories of 3rd Edition/3.5 games that you guys have actually played that fealt 'Old School'. Obviously, the caveat here is that you have actually experienced 'old school' by playing some of the earlier editions of the D&D game.

Thanks.

Edit to add: Any supplement and adventure module suggestions that carry that 'Old School' feel are also welcome.

 

[Agamon]

I'd need a definition of "Old School" first. To me, it either refers to the nastalgia of first playing the game in the early 80's (something that can never be replicated, IMO), or to the style of play, which, for me, as a pre-teen, was hack and slash, kick the door in, kill the monster and take his stuff type of games, with no connection between adventures accept for PCs that are in them. And that can certainly be replicated by 3E.

I guess it could also mean adventure type (they were certainly different back then), in which case, you just need to take an oD&D or 1E module and convert it.

Or am I way off base, here?

 

[Breakdaddy]

The Goodman Games stuff seems (IME) to be the closest thing to getting back the Old School feel for 3.x games. If you guys are seriously wanting to go old school you can also tweak out some of the Necro stuff like crucible of freya (which rocks but does require some tweaking to feel old school IMO). If you want to REALLY put some work into it go hook yourself up with a copy of an actual original module like Keep on the Borderlands or Temple of Elemental Evil and port it over. Some systems, of course, would require less work or no work, but if you are set on 3.x D&D then these are my suggestions.

 

[Turanil]

One of the things to get an "old school" feel, is to ban all characters such as Half-dragon-drow-ninja-blackguards concepts, or halfling-paladins-shadowdancers in dungeonpunk garb (I mean: with a trenchcoat, a katana, and an attitude...).

Otherwise, you may also sped up the game in handwaving / forgetting AoO, square-grid movement, and else.

 

[Mythmere1]

I agree, old-school is a bit hard to define when you actually start looking at its components.
1) lots of it has to do with the nature of discussion between player and GM. Old D&D and Castles & Crusades (haven't played HM) use GM judgement where 3E has rules. Either know the rules very well, or have your players understand that you're going to make your rulings from memory and that the books aren't going to trump that ruling. This can help you keep from getting bogged down in rules.

2) Rules complexity - a lot more calculations go into 3E game events than in older D&D. Make sure that player character sheets are as simplified as possible, and make sure you have cards or something with player spot and search skills. Anything you can do to pre-prepare so that things move fast around the table when gaming starts.

3) Party's power level - old D&D usually had the party as "little guys" even when they were fairly high level. This is solely a matter of how you portray your campaign.

4) Party purpose - old school parties were generally adventurers getting loot and reputation, and not so focused on following a story line. Even when working for the cause of greater good, there was considerable latitude for getting rich and pursuing a variety of different adventures.

5) less variation of options for party races, less variation in the "main races" of the world. Put the weirder races and things in dungeons, not in the world.

6) use a feudal structure - Greyhawk is a good example. Even use Greyhawk as the setting, possibly.

Overall, I think Castles & Crusades is simply a better vehicle for getting that sense of wonder feel, but having PLAYED Castles & Crusades, I think I could now play a better old school game of 3.5. Hope the comments help.

 

[MPA]

6) use a feudal structure

False. There are many OS games that are not even medieval fantasy, much less feudal. I don't see feudalism in Greyhawk, by the way.

 

[Crothian]

Take a slogan from Nike and Just Do it. Old School is different to everyone, figure out what makes something old school for you and incorperate it into the game.

Oh, and trap finding and disarming was just rolls back in first edtion as well.....

 

[MarauderX]

Take a slogan from Nike and Just Do it. Old School is different to everyone, figure out what makes something old school for you and incorperate it into the game.

Exactly. I think of Basic as very gritty, dirty, and with lots of risk and PC death. That's probably not the same for you, but I have found I can carve out what I want easily with 3.5E that I never could in 1 or 2E.

It sounds like you are looking for how to define the game world in which the PCs are exploring. Do the exact inverse of Forgotten Realms. Pretend there are no high-level NPCs, gods, whatever watching over -anything-. Give them the feel that the world teeters between law and lawlessness, that there is no government safety net to save them, no secret society of good that strives to make things right in the background. No one will ressurrect them at the temple, nor provide them a warm stay at a lovely inn, nor sell them new magic armor simply because it doesn't exist. Throw them in with the idea that they are in control of this mess, and wish them luck in keeping the world rending itself asunder. Then add bad guys who seem to be more organized/motivated/vicious/vile than anything they have ever seen.

Also you may want to pick up some of the old Basic D&D modules to get ideas and steal detail from. I recommend B10 as a good start, and Goodman Games has some good stuff, although I have only read bits and pieces thus far.

 

[Poster Bard]

As some have said, Old School is different things to different people. It's less about the material or the ruleset than the DM, IMO, that makes an experience reminiscent of my early days of gaming.

 

[EricNoah]

For me, the "old school feeling" with regards to traps and tricks include the following...

1) No unified mechanic -- sometimes a trap would activate on a 1 in 6. Sometimes the trap was undetectable unless you specifically did X or Y. Magic traps sometimes could only be bypassed by casting a certain specific spell. Sometimes there was no save -- mechanical traps often dealt automatic, unavoidable damage.

2) No "generic search checks." You had to really describe what you were searching and specifically where. The concept of a "take 20 search" didn't exist. If you never told the DM that you were looking at the base of the statue, then it was assumed that you didn't. However, the best old school traps often had some sort of clue or sign of its presence -- stains, burn marks, etc.

3) Searching means touching -- if you are searching for traps, you physically interacted with it and often set it off.

4) Poison was handled quite differently -- save or die in most cases. Poisoned traps, then, were greatly feared.