On Ettins and Ongoing Damage

[Obryn]

This question applies to any creature that goes more than once in a round. Ettins, two-headed trolls, the Karavakos Abomination, or even a character who's been Guileful Switched by the party's Warlord.

Let's say there's an environmental effect - maybe an aura of some sort - which deals 5 damage to every creature on the beginning of their turn.

Should this be applied multiple times to a creature with multiple turns?

The same question applies to ongoing damage - I'm under the assumption that the creature takes the damage again and rolls a save again, but again, I'm not positive.

At any rate, it seems unduly harsh on the poor old ettin. And, in the case of the Karavakos Abomination,

Spoiler

his room's "feature" seems like it gets to whammy him three times every round

.

How have you handled this in your games? Do you only apply the extra damage or environmental conditions on the monster's first turn every round? Or do you just let it work every turn, more or less double- or triple-hitting anyone unfortunate enough to have multiple actions in a turn?

-O

 

[babinro]

I'm nearly positive that because the ability to act multiple times in initiative only allows for one set of saving throws/effects on the first round of initiative.

My basis for this is simply because the Demogorgon has an ability called Dual Brain which states that at the end of each of its turns, Demogorgon can save vs certain effects.

The book would have no reason to mention this trait for Demogorgon if the rule of thumb was to make saves on every initiative count as is.

 

[Obryn]

That sounds like good justification, and it's one I could work with, absolutely.

That's how I ran the Karavakos Abomination, and it worked well there.

-O

 

[Dr_Sage]

I agree.

I think any ongoing damage/regeneration is not affected by how many actions the creature can take.

The basic use of the action point come to my mind to remmember that.

In my opinion the ongoing thing is just like that: ongoing all the time slowly. We just use the creature's turn as a reference, nothing more.

Cheers!

 

[Nifft]

I'm nearly positive that because the ability to act multiple times in initiative only allows for one set of saving throws/effects on the first round of initiative.

I agree with this logic, but my group followed it to the opposite conclusion.

IMHO the key should be: if they get to save twice (excluding bonus saves from powers), they should have to suffer ongoing damage twice. Either way you go, if you apply the benefit the same number of times that you apply the penalty, it'll be reasonably fair.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Obryn]

Seems like a good rule of thumb.

A saving throw means you get hit many times a round, but get to save many times a round.

No save means you get hit once per round.

-O

 

[Mahali]

It's still only one creature.
We've always given them damage and saves once per round.

 

[legiondevil]

I personally say they suffer the effect each time their init comes up. Occasionally, this completely hoses monsters...but it also rewards players for intelligent actions in combat.

For Instance

Spoiler

My PC's in Thunderspire Labyrinth were fighting the abomination, and it was the Wizards turn. He dropped a Wall of Fire, and then spent an action point to Icy Rays the abomination, hitting and immobilizing the creature. It then suffered for quite a few turns of burning agony inside the wall, as it had to wait three turns (and 3 triggers of damage from the wall of fire) until the wizards Icy Rays wore off. For this, my parties wizard was touted as a tactical genius, until he told people to attack the pillars in Karavakos' inner chamber, and nearly brought about a TPK.

 

[DracoSuave]

The Ettin (and the Dolgrim) doesn't have extra actions. It has extra turns, from which it benefits from completely. Immediate actions refresh, etc.

Each turn has its own initative count, and each is treated as a complete turn, with a complete complement of actions. And, by the rules, if you get bonus turns by any means, you must take the negative effects for each turn regardless of how unfair it is. However, the ettin also gets each turn's saving throws. In the end, it still takes the same amount of damage from ongoing, tho other effects it will shrug off sooner.