D&D General On gatekeeping and the 'live-streaming edition wars'

[Morrus]

Here's the sad truth: this isn't a new war. It's a new front in a war that's possibly older than the hobby itself.

Gatekeepers gatekeep for a reason; they don't want certain types of people in their hobby (or certainly not being welcomed and catered to, at the very least). Stream fans are, by and large, a younger, much more diverse audience (regardless of how true this actually is, it's hard to deny that this is the most common perception of that audience). And grognards lamenting younger, more diverse D&D players is about as old as dirt.

Honestly this whole thing has much more in common with the whole chainmail bikini thing or even gamergate than with any edition war.

Ironically, they were young when they started playing. The idea that D&D wasn't directed towards and mainly played by young adults is hilarious. It still is; it's not D&D's fault that people age.

 

[Beleriphon]

Gatekeepers gatekeep for a reason; they don't want certain types of people in their hobby (or certainly not being welcomed and catered to, at the very least). Stream fans are, by and large, a younger, much more diverse audience (regardless of how true this actually is, it's hard to deny that this is the most common perception of that audience). And grognards lamenting younger, more diverse D&D players is about as old as dirt.

It goes back farther RPGs. The Fosbury Flop was hated, and nearly deemed illegal to use in high jump.

To paraphrase one social pundit (view of the young by the older generations):

"Little by little, this spirit of license, finding a home, imperceptibly penetrates into manners and customs. From there, it invades contracts between man and man, and from contracts goes on to laws and constitutions, in utter recklessness, ending at last by an overthrow of all rights, private as well as public…. If amusements become lawless, and the youths themselves become lawless, they can never grow up into well-conducted and virtuous citizens…. They will invent for themselves rules which have been otherwise neglected, such as how to show respect to their elders; what honor is due to parents; what clothing and hairstyles are appropriate; and all behavior and manners in general."

Fun fact, that's Plato circa 380 BCE. So I figure people not liking new things has been around since there were people and new things.

 

[Bawylie]

very tentatively puts hand up

Question?

Everyone can be a D&D fan. You don't have to play, or watch a livestream, or cosplay, or buy the books, or any one particular thing to be a fan. It's a big tent and everyone is equally welcome.

But are the fans who don't - and have never - actually played, considered D&D players? Is it ok to make that distinction, or is that also gatekeeping?

This is a genuine question from someone who may be out of touch with the modern consensus.

IMO it’s like baseball. You can be a fan, watch games on TV, listen on the radio, go to games live, buy merch .... or not. Either way, you don’t have to actually play baseball to be part of the team or fandom.

D&D strikes me as a small scale, interpersonal hobby that traditionally spread by word of mouth. ‘New’ tech is changing how people become aware of and consume D&D. Accordingly, its growth (and how people engage with it) is gonna look different in some areas. If you didn’t come to D&D the old school route of word-of-mouth, how you “do” D&D is gonna be different.

It can be so different that your initial reaction might sound a lot like, “that’s not the d&d I know. I don’t recognize this.” And that sentiment pops up from various parties every iteration of the game. Fair enough. It’s a reasonable and honest reaction. The step-too-far is denigration. The idea that “they don’t do it the way I do so it’s bad.”

I don’t (and haven’t) watch(ed) CR. So I don’t really know if they do it the way I do it or not. I don’t have any direct experience with fans or critters (that I know of). But I don’t doubt that whatever they’re doing “counts” as D&D, even if it IS different.

I mean, naughty word, how different is “traditional” d&d from one table to the next? Pretty freaking different, IMO. So it’s all good.

 

[Reynard]

We should probably also avoid immediately ascribing malice as a motivation to those that ask questions or express differing opinions. I know I am often knee jerk guilty of assuming someone is being disingenuous or arguing in bad faith. Someone presenting the opinion that "streaming sucks" might just be bad at communicating a more nuanced idea. This is what message boards are good for, I think: being able to take the longer route through our opinions and thoughts and being able to express them in ways that other social media makes difficult.

 

[Krachek]

This is exactly the kind of gatekeeping comment we don't want. We'll let people decide for themselves what they like or what they'll do.

So let’s talk about the streaming,
it show a way of playing DnD, more social, role play, and joyful.
if their audience continue to grow, it will become a norm, a common way to see DnD. much more efficient than publicity or new product launch.
there is no war, streaming show their way of DnD without any response by other playstyle.

i don’t know how people will react and change their way of playing the game according to the popularity of the streaming play style, but usually people tend to mimic and redo what they like watching.

i don’t what WotC will do in response to this free publicity campaign, but I can guess that they will go with the flow.

 

[Undrave]

So let’s talk about the streaming,
it show a way of playing DnD, more social, role play, and joyful.
if their audience continue to grow, it will become a norm, a common way to see DnD. much more efficient than publicity or new product launch.
there is no war, streaming show their way of DnD without any response by other playstyle.

i don’t know how people will react and change their way of playing the game according to the popularity of the streaming play style, but usually people tend to mimic and redo what they like watching.

i don’t what WotC will do in response to this free publicity campaign, but I can guess that they will go with the flow.

Are you saying there is a specific 'Streaming play style' that is common to ALL streaming games?

Pretty sure every group has its own style that grows and develop with time.

 

[Zardnaar]

Just stay off Twitter and Facebook. They're literal cancer.

Problem solved.

 

[schneeland]

I have seen pretty nasty comments on both sides of the spectrum (actually more derogatory comments targeted at older players/people not watching streams, but I blame that on my filter bubble at the time). I appreciate that this kind of mutual shaming and insults is kept off ENWorld.

 

[Umbran]

Just stay off Twitter and Facebook. They're literal cancer.

{begin grammarian gatekeeping}
No. Cancer in your body is literal cancer. Nothing that isn't cells from a body growing out of control is literal cancer. Twitter and Facebook are metaphorical cancer.

Using, "literal," to mean, "heavily stressed metaphor," is the work of the Dark Lord, and badwrongfun.
{/end gammarian gatekeeping}

 

[Krachek]

Are you saying there is a specific 'Streaming play style' that is common to ALL streaming games?

Pretty sure every group has its own style that grows and develop with time.

Is there any popular DnD stream where players main concerns are tactical and ressources management?