D&D General On gatekeeping and the 'live-streaming edition wars'

[MNblockhead]

Regarding enjoying streaming being generational, I'm 48 and enjoy listening to live-stream TTRPG. Having played in the 80s and stopping in the early 90s, when I got back into the hobby with 5e after a long time of not playing any TTRPGs at all, I was bit by the gaming bug hard. Besides running my once-a-month, 8-hour session as a DM, and occasionally playing or running one shots at the LFGS and local convention when time permitted, I devoured related content in all its forms:

* Started with some old Chris Perkins videos on running the game, which was basically live play over dubbed with commentary

* From there discovered Acquisitions Incorporated, of whiched I've listed to and watched everyone, including watching it in live streamed into a local movie theater

* I started reading the old Sword & Sorcery series that inspired the early gamers (Connan, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, Dying Earth), reread Dragon Lance, etc.

* I listened to a lot of streamed play, but usually the recordings via pod casts, mainly Critical Role, Dragon Friends, and Godsfall

* I've spent way too much time on forums like EnWorld

Because of work and family schedule, much of this is done is binged, when I have chunks of time available, but pod casts are one of the easier forms of gaming content to consume. I listened to the first season of Critical Role while mowing the lawn and doing other yard work.

Shows like Critical Role are engaging because they have talented DMs who are great and world building and story telling and the players are all talented voice actors. Dragon Friends is fun because you have professional improv comedians playing through adventures I'm familiar with in front of a live audience. It isn't just watching a group of people playing--though that can be fun as well--it is a form of entertainment that melds acting, engaging stories, improv, put within the structure of game rules, the story rule by the roll of a d20.

There are other players in my home game around the same age who also enjoy it. So, I don't think this is a gen X v. millennial thing at all, at least not in my experience.

People who love playing poker and golf can enjoy spending many hours watching others play those game, some who don't play only enjoy these games as spectators. I see nothing strange or difficult to understand about some people being the same about TTRPGs, especially since TTRPG streams involve stories. This melding of story telling and gaming is an exciting new form of entertainment and I predict that it will grow to the point where more people are fans as spectators than players for the same reasons as this is the case with other form of entertainment.

And I see no problem with this at all. I like watching modern dance, but I hate actively participating in it. I like playing poker and I like fishing but have not interest in watching people do these activities. I like playing and watching TTRPG games. Other people will have different preferences.

Kinda hard for me to understand why anyone would care whether someone else participates in a hobby as a participant versus a spectator. It's difficult to understand why someone would play the role of gatekeeper when there is no gate.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

You forgot Essentials Box Set, but if your not into the box sets and don't feel AI counted (which I don't), then it felt smaller, no MTOF or XGTE like release, just a couple APs and one good Campaign Setting Book, which compared to 2018 which saw MTOF, two great Waterdeep Books/APs, Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica, Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron.

2019 was the year of the box set, but hopefully that is over now, making for room for setting books. FR outside the Swordcoast and other settings need love now.

As a data point, the last "generic" book was released in May 2018. Since then the release have been 3 box sets, 3 settings guides, and 4 adventure paths. These number do not include the Critical Role book, the Eberron non-print book, or the rerelease of the Tyranny of Dragons.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

why not play instead of watch I would ask?

I don’t watch, and have no intention of ever doing so.

But right now, I don’t play because my main game group of the last 20 years has gone poker & boardgame centric, and hasn’t had an active RPG campaign in 2 years. My OLDER game group fractured about the same time,

Could I find another group? Probably. But I honestly don’t feel like gaming with strangers right now.

 

[Azzy]

It's mostly about people who wanted Dark Sun being mad that they didn't get it, near as I can tell.

Unpopular Opinion: Dark Sun is highly overated and should take a back seat to other settings considering that it had a campaign book in the last edition.

 

[gyor]

Unpopular Opinion: Dark Sun is highly overated and should take a back seat to other settings considering that it had a campaign book in the last edition.

Your right that is unpopular ;p

 

[Eyes of Nine]

Unpopular Opinion: Dark Sun is highly overated and should take a back seat to other settings considering that it had a campaign book in the last edition.

I'm on your side on this one @Azzy But I agree with @gyor it is an unpopular opinion. I have 3 settings I'd rather see published before Dark Sun. (Planescape, Spelljammer, and Greyhawk. Maybe 4 because wouldn't it be freaking cool for them to publish Blackmoor?).

 

[DND_Reborn]

Keep that thought...

Actually, it is. If I watch an episode of Critical Role, I use what, 4 hours of time?

Sure, I guess so... I have no idea how long it goes for an episode so I'll talk your word on it.

If I bring a group together to play a game, I use four hours of my time, and four hours of each other person at the table. So, I need 4 person-hours of effort to watch, and like, 20 person-hours available to actually play. In terms of cost and availability, that's not a trivial difference.

This is hardly representative of the time it takes to read a novel (for most people anyway) compared to writing one, which is what you posed the question on when I used it as an example.

There is a big reason why one of the largest complaints you see around here is, "scheduling is a major barrier to play". Sessions cancel. Groups fall apart due to Real Life. But the stream is always there, a click away, and I don't need to herd cats to engage in it.

(And, for the record, that's a rhetorical "I". I personally don't watch CR, or any other streamed games.)

True enough, but for people who only watch streaming, that time could be invested in finding a group, playing online, etc. You don't need more than one other person (for the most part) to play, after all.

As far as the reasons why people don't play when the want to, I can understand that (to a point) but I also beg the question how important is playing to a person? If you don't have it as a priority, then it is hard to get a game together. Personally, I am fortunate enough to make it a priority and play every other Saturday. Rarely we have to cancel, but that is really rare because we all choose to make it a priority. Some people simply can't (kids, work, college, family obligations, etc.) and I get that, but if you have time to watch it online, I am guessing you might have time to play if you really want to. Each person is different, so I certainly won't claim that is universal.

I am not trying to be controversial. I am trying to point out that "why watch when you can play" is rather glib and oversimplified.

Fair enough, but the point stands. There are lots of ways to play, after all. If someone simply doesn't want to play, that is a different matter of course.

 

[DND_Reborn]

So, if I've got my regular weekly game on a Friday night . . . . watching Critical Role at some other point in the week is silly? I should be gaming during all available free time? If I've got time to watch Critical Role, I should always be playing instead?

I'm pushing this to the ridiculous extreme, but the idea that time spent watching a streaming game is better spent actually gaming is ridiculous. There's all sorts of reasons why some folks play and others watch, and some watch while others play, and some do both, watch and play. The need to draw lines is gatekeeping, if mildly so.

Well, to me anyway, watching a streaming session of someone else's game is silly. But that is my preference and if someone wants to watch it, they can have it.

Now, do you have to play all the time? YES!!! (joking)

Of course not! My point was simply that if someone enjoys watching, and they have an interest in trying it out and playing a game, I hope they are pursuing that goal.

 

[Eltab]

I'm going to riff on a sentiment from upthread:

If you watch D&D games but do not play, you are a fan, not a player. This is a matter of definitions, not something involving looking down my nose at people.

The Force is with you, young Skywalker, but you are not a Jedi ... yet.

Meanwhile, the table at my FLGS always has room for one more. (What is the record for most chairs pulled around a table?) Come on over and join us!
Whenever you'd like, we can help your 'yet' become 'now'.
Welcome!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's mostly about people who wanted Dark Sun being mad that they didn't get it, near as I can tell.

I would really like Dark Sun, but there reasons I want it - it's very different to standard 5e settings - lead me to believe it is simply too difficult to ever do in 5e.

There are a number of things - "e.g. no this, no that, this works differently" - that directly contradict official 5e design paradigms.