On the importance of Counterspelling

[Tar-Edhel]

I've been playing 3rd edition since it came out and I still haven't seen one counterspell. I like the concept so I started to think about a wizard specializing in counterspelling.

I was thinking about putting everything I could on my INT score (duh!), taking Improved counterspelling and max my ranks in spellcraft. I would be a generalist since I would want to have access to the wider range of spells possible.

Is that the way to go? Do you think such a wizard could be of some help in a party? What kind of feats/abilities/scores would help the most?

I am mostly concerned about the viability of such a mage. Is counterspelling really worh the effort? Has someone tried Improved counterspelling? I'd like to hear on how it fares on the battlefield... It looks promising on paper but I'd like some inputs.

Thanks

 

[Number47]

It all depends on the situation. If you have a party of say, four characters, a cleric, a rogue, a fighter and a wizard. The wizard specializes in counterspelling.

Situation A: You come to the big fight. The enemy consists of mostly big fighting types with a little bit of low-level magic. The wizard will find counterspelling pointless.

Situation B: You come to the big fight. The enemy is mostly minor fighters protecting a single, powerful spellcaster. The wizard keeps the spellcaster in check with counterspells until the group mops up the henchmen.

So you see that it mostly depends on the situation. Other points to consider - get improved initiative! You can't be playing catch-up if your counterspelling. You have to start it off right away. Make sure you have Haste and Dispel Magic. When it becomes available, get Greater Dispel.

What you have to do is win initiative (hopefully have Imp. Initiative and a high Dex and Cat's Grace), cast Haste then, with your free partial action, ready to counterspell. Your foe casts a spell and you counter it. You will now have the same initiative as him, but your Dex should be higher, allowing you to go before him. On your next turn, you get to cast a spell with your regular action, then ready a counterspell with your partial action. Lather, rinse, repeat. If you don't get initiative, you're hosed if the baddie casts Haste as his first spell.

 

[StealthyMark]

If you don't get initiative, you're hosed if the baddie casts Haste as his first spell.

You could use a potion/boots of Haste. No counterspell possible.
Enemy: Haste, Ready
You: Potion, Ready instead of You: Haste (Enemy: Counterspell), No Haste, no Ready

IMO, Improved Counterspell is more important than Improved Initiative, especially for Sorcerers. You could even counter cleric/druid spells.

 

[Gilrion]

Consider being a sorcerer instead of a wizard. That way you can keep flinging dispels. Also check out Magic of Faerun, and Reactive Counterspelling there. It lets you counterspell even if it's not your action (provided you aren't flat-footed). Prerequisites are Improved Counterspell and Improved Initiative if I'm not mistaken.

Counterspelling's effectiveness is largely dependant on the number of enemy casters you meet. Do remember to keep other spells memorized (or chosen if you go sorcerer) so you can be an asset to your party.

 

[Rackhir]

All the points made so far have been very good. Perhaps the most important reason to be a sorcerer vs a wizard, is that the the sorc has a much better chance of having the correct spell to counter-spell something, since they aren't limited to working off of a fixed list of choices for the day. IIRC it is better to try and dispell a spell with the same spell that is being cast, than to use a dispell magic.

I absolutely have to agree, that initiative is absolutely paramount in a dispelling role, since if you can't act, you can't dispell anything. Though I was unaware of the Magic of Faerun feats. I'll keep those in mind.

One substantial downside to a dispelling role, is that it is going to limit you to a primarily passive role. As a mage, you are the party's heavy artillery. If you are spending all your time waiting for the enemy spell caster to cast something to dispell, then you aren't casting fireball, web or sleep at the hordes of enemies. Fighting large numbers of foes is in my experience more common than fighting casters.

I could really only recomend it if you were going to in a campaign where you fighting a lot of enemy magic users and where you had a second mage to handle the firepower. Still some sort of more integrated counterspelling system would be nice, it's a common features of many fantasy novels and is one of the things I've always felt to be most lacking in D&D.

 

[Aryes]

I'm running a mid-level campaign in which one of the major bad guys is a "counterspell specialist" sorcerer. He is never alone so I guess he falls into the roll of the BA caster surrounded by henchmen. His key thing was that he only countered the mass damages and the heals. It was one of the more epic battles in the campaign AND he got away. So, I'm not sure it's so great as a PC, but as a nemisis it's a cool change.

Along that topic, I don't think you can counter the usage of potions, but can you scrolls? I have been playing it so.

 

[Tar-Edhel]

Thanks for the input guys. I now have a better idea on what that character will be like.

But I am not sure I agree about the sorcerer being a better choice. With Improved counterspel, all I need is a spell of the same school, 1 level higher. Seems to me that a wizard would be better in that regard since he gets new spell levels faster than the sorceror.

What I would like is to be able to limit my use of Dispel Magic and counterspell "naturally". Dispel Magic is not a sure shot, unlike a counterspell.

And I do get feats faster with the wizard. I am even considering specializing since it would give me more spells. Of course, it stops me from being able to counterspell entire schools but by choosing wisely, I think it would be worth it.

What do you think?

 

[Someguy]

Wand of dispel...


That would be really good...

And on a aside note...to couneter counter spelling, jsut you silent/still magic....

The enemy would have to guess at what you are casting and use a dispel magic, and the would run out (hopefully) of those pretty soon...

 

[Duncan Haldane]

Situation A: You come to the big fight. The enemy consists of mostly big fighting types with a little bit of low-level magic. The wizard will find counterspelling pointless.

But if you have a variety of spells worth counterspelling, which are likely to be damage spells, you can cast those at the enemies if there is nothing to counter.

I would go for a wizard rather than a sorceror, I think. You get a much larger variety of spells that you can know as a wizard, as well as progressing faster in spell levels as you go up.

Counterspelling and dispelling aren't the same thing ;-)

And yes, if you can buy/find/make an item that allows you to dispell often that would be very useful, but as someone else pointed out, dispelling isn't automatic, while countering is ;-)

I think it could be an interesting way to go, but at lower levels you could find it hard.

Duncan

 

[SableWyvern]

A very, very, pesky villain is now due to enter my campaign, thanks to this rather interesting thread.