shilsen
Adventurer
Jack7 said:Generally speaking though, most people know a hero when they see one, and they know that most folks can be heroic to some extent or another, and that even the greatest of heroes has his flaws. So I never said there was only one hero, only that it is an ideal it is worth working towards.
I'll only go so far as a "Maybe" on that, because the possibilities for variant definitions makes that potentially risky. Hitler definitely saw himself as a hero and we all know how that one worked out!
Or it could also be about dice and hit points. Or class and race. Or gold and iron. But there is often a difference between means and intent. And what something is built out of, and what it is built for.
Sure. I just don't buy what you often claim that the intent of D&D originally was, and pointed out one other intent which was arguably just as important.
And a person sitting around imaging that he will be heroic is probably (though it is no guarantee in real life that he will be) better than sitting around imagining he will be cowardly or riskless or spend his life all in dreams of what he could have been had the die roll gone some other way.
I'm glad you threw a "probably" in there. I can see a lot of laudable reasons for imagining being cowardly or riskless or a lot of other things. Being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes before deciding those shoes don't fit can be a pretty good thing.
Heroism is certainly a better goal to shoot for than the opposite and probably why the character classes in the game are all adventurous (which originally meant inclined towards hazard) and daring, and why one plays Rogues and Rangers and Wizards, instead of accountants and gardeners and librarians. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but most folks just don't see the point of the bother of playing Tom the Tax Attorney. Unless Tom the Tax Attorney is a secret identity for Doc Savage. Then that might be a game worth playing.
I honestly don't think the game involves the kind of characters it does because heroism is seen as laudable in some way. I find it much more believable that it does because playing a capable and action-oriented character, especially one who does things that don't happen in real life, is seen as fun. And because inflicting violent death is seen as entertaining. And because fantastic wish-fulfilment can be fun.
So yeah, a teenage fantasy of playing a heroic character can't go anywhere in and of itself. But if it spurs a dream towards real manhood in real people then that's better than no dream at all. And every reality starts somewhere. Even if that reality is just a fantasy of what has yet to happen. But might with a little work.
I agree that it might. I just disagree that D&D was designed to achieve that or that it's any better at achieving it than just sitting in your room imagining you're a hero. And I certainly don't buy that the commonality or treatment of death in someone's game has any impact on it whatsoever.