TSR On the Relative Merits of the TSR Editions

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It’s definitely not as intimidating as 1e. I even think the DMG is a valuable resource. Plus the spell books and item books.

The Monstrous Manual was also a very solid book, although the art quality varies wildly.

 

[Micah Sweet]

When you add in all the extra bits, it can significantly increase the time it takes to create a new PC, but the good thing about 2e is that you don't need to have things like proficiencies or class kits, though I'd still grant the fighter specialisation even if I wasn't using weapon proficiencies.

I've never understood the problem with taking more time to make a character. That's a big part of what session zero is for, after all. Take all the time you need I say.

 

[rabindranath72]

I’ve been revisiting 2e for a couple months now. Not running it but just reading the core rules and ya know I think it just might be my favorite edition. It streamlined some warts in 1e and fixed the Thief. My only grumble is Priest class. I have Legends & Lore now and Complete Priest and it works a lot better than I remember though I recall the FR priests being insane compared to L&L. Oh and Psionics. Give me alternate rules for some of those monsters.

It’s definitely not as intimidating as 1e. I even think the DMG is a valuable resource. Plus the spell books and item books.

The early 2e FR resource (FR Adventures hardback by Jeff Grubb and Ed Greenwood) has specialty priests which are not completely busted like the later offerings.

You may also want to look at Rich Baker's Spells and Magic; he re-organises the Spheres and Schools so that Druids and Clerics get more specialised spell lists (like in 1e), and creates the Universal school with essential spells that all wizard specialists can use (e.g. Enchant Magic Item would be needed by all wizard types, but in PHB some specialists could not create magic items.) This is probably the only book I would absolutely use beyond PHB, DMG, and MM.

 

[Mannahnin]

I've never understood the problem with taking more time to make a character. That's a big part of what session zero is for, after all. Take all the time you need I say.

When the rules are fiddly and detailed it's easy to make a mistake.

When character generation is quick & simple it's easy to make a new character and jump right back in the action when one is killed or disabled.

One of the great things about running the simpler versions of D&D is that you almost never need a multi-hour session zero, even for new players. You can make characters and be playing in 20 minutes, or 10 if you use equipment fast packs.

 

[Micah Sweet]

When the rules are fiddly and detailed it's easy to make a mistake.

When character generation is quick & simple it's easy to make a new character and jump right back in the action when one is killed or disabled.

One of the great things about running the simpler versions of D&D is that you almost never need a multi-hour session zero, even for new players. You can make characters and be playing in 20 minutes, or 10 if you use equipment fast packs.

I suppose, but if you want a character with lots of mechanical widgets (which apparently isn't a deal breaker for a lot of gamers, judging from the popularity of modern D&D and its relatives), then character creation is just going to take a little more time. If you're worried about getting a new PC i to an active game, I suggest making more than one and having the spare on deck.

 

[Mannahnin]

I suppose, but if you want a character with lots of mechanical widgets (which apparently isn't a deal breaker for a lot of gamers, judging from the popularity of modern D&D and its relatives), then character creation is just going to take a little more time. If you're worried about getting a new PC i to an active game, I suggest making more than one and having the spare on deck.

That's what Pendragon explicitly advises players to do. Speaking of another game I'm playing now.

 

[Gus L]

I've never understood the problem with taking more time to make a character. That's a big part of what session zero is for, after all. Take all the time you need I say.

Session what? I've got it down to rolling 7D6 and picking a name. We can get to adventure in 10 minutes.

I get it that some people like building PCs - I remember spending hours making Champions Characters back in the 90's ... most often never to play them. It's obviously a personal choice, but there are very real costs to having long complex processes for character building. It becomes a rules mastery thing first of all, an that makes it hard to introduce new players. Second it tends to increase the early player attachment to and focus on their PCs which can be rough if you're playing a system with high lethality (it can otherwise be good in a low lethality story focused game). As such character building and character design time represent one of the pivot points for an RPG to a different type of game.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Session what? I've got it down to rolling 7D6 and picking a name. We can get to adventure in 10 minutes.

I get it that some people like building PCs - I remember spending hours making Champions Characters back in the 90's ... most often never to play them. It's obviously a personal choice, but there are very real costs to having long complex processes for character building. It becomes a rules mastery thing first of all, an that makes it hard to introduce new players. Second it tends to increase the early player attachment to and focus on their PCs which can be rough if you're playing a system with high lethality (it can otherwise be good in a low lethality story focused game). As such character building and character design time represent one of the pivot points for an RPG to a different type of game.

What kind of game do you think a game with a longer character generation time is? I don't see how that metric has any effect on a game's status as an RPG.

As far as rules mastery and introducing new players goes, obviously it's personal preference but I have no problem taking my time and easing people into the process. And as for the lethality issue, I just make sure we settle on that very clearly in session zero.

 

[Bunch]

Does Holmes get no respect as it's own special edition?!? Sure it's close to OD&D but it's not. It's my intro to D&D so it has a special place in my heart

 

[...m...]

Does Holmes get no respect as it's own special edition?!? Sure it's close to OD&D but it's not. It's my intro to D&D so it has a special place in my heart

...i've always considered holmes a better-edited expression of OD+D, but essentially the same game...