On the State of Digital Aids for D+D/D20/OGL

[kingpaul]

a pain to try and edit or create .lst files.

Not really, but YMMV

I hate E-tools because I paid for a piece of garbage...

Does that also include after CMP did their several patches to bring it up to 1.666?

All that having been said, I currently use DMGenie because it *has* the *capability* to do everything you want, with the exception of maps and a cutesy GUI.

What's your definition of "everything you want"? You've already ruled out the GUI, which is one of the main issues that folks have with PCGen. And you've already ruled out data, since you hate how DMGenie does it via the scripts.

 

[kingpaul]

If you do it for free, there isn't enough time in the day to get everything done.

Amen to that.

With all of that said, I want to take a moment to thank any and all programmers, writers, coders, designers, testers, custom data inputters for their hard work and willingness to invest in these labors of love for the rest of us.

You are very welcome.

 

[iwarrior-poet]

Wish List

OK. Let me get very specific about what I would like to see---best case scenario

CharGen Features:
• Easy to use UI that includes iconic equipping features (as per Baldur’s Gate and 3.0 CharGen)
• What do I mean by easy to use? Tabbed pages that allow one to quickly move from abilities, skills, feats, items, spells.
• When you level up the CharGen should guide you through the selection of class, feats and skills (though this should also be user-defeatable to allow for funky rule exceptions and stuff)
• Access to all WoTC dataset material and ability to incorporate other datasets (lord I would love to have access to Mongoose’s Quintessential Ranger I+II)
• Ability to create new Prestige Classes and Feats (though the UI---not by coding). Also these PrCs and Feats should be able to alter appropriate statistics (ie BHB, Saves, Spell caster level, supernatural affects, spell-like effects---etc…---I know this one is a tall order)
• Able to be easily printed out into a concise but comprehensive format (I actually think PCGen does an excellent job with this one---its .html files are darn good)
• Able to select a small character portrait (or import one). This would become an Avatar that would represent the PC in mapping, campaign management and encounter management

Campaign Management:
• Gotta be honest and say that I am not too sure what I am looking for here, since I have seen no good examples of this. I see this component as an overarching piece that ties in everything else. And when I say tie in---I mean rapidly links NPCs to specific places (ie mapping), encounters, treasure and somewhere the ability to tell the story of the campaign and the individual NPC’s. It should keep track of your stable of PC’s, NPC’s, monsters, treasure, planned encounters
• Magic Item Creation---not sure if this would be best here or in Chargen (it should probably be accessible in both)---either way you should be able to create/manage/save magic items.
• NPC/Monster Creation---again---not sure if this would be better here or in CharGen (although again it should probably be accessible in both). There should be some sort of simplified option for DM’s where you could quickly create the stats of NPC’s/Monsters for a pending encounter, and be able to do it several different ways. For example---the DM could simply select a challenge rating for an encounter----or add that if adhere to a particular terrain, or start with specific critters and ask they either be leveled up, or increased in number to fit a challenge rating…I see this getting done with a series of drop down menus). If a DM wanted to get more specific with a critter---he should be able to start here and then launch into the CharGen.

Encounter Management
• Lord, I HATE keeping track of stuff during encounters. I would be looking for something that kept track of rounds, initiatives, buffing spells/conditions, penalties, terrain influences on stats
• It should be able to load any PC, NPCs, monsters and use my avatar idea (or some other easy to identify icon device) to aid in quick identification

Mapping
• The key here would be ease of use (like everywhere---but particularly here). I would want something that a 4th grader could use. Drag and drop corridors, caves, doors and the like. It should be able to get more sophisticated if need (and ability on the part of the DM) arose---but generally very, very simple.
• You should be able to make links within the maps---to other maps or to Encounters and/or NPCs|monsters.

There’s my first pass at it.

 

[3catcircus]

Not really, but YMMV

The fact that when I open up an .lst file and have to constantly refer back to a list of tags (i.e. what PREALIGN: 3,4,5,6,7,8 means is a heck of a lot harder to remember than what PREALIGN: LG, NG, CG,... means) makes it too cumbersome.

Does that also include after CMP did their several patches to bring it up to 1.666?

I deleted E-tools off of my machine and refuse to have anything more to do with it - regardless of patch status.

What's your definition of "everything you want"? You've already ruled out the GUI, which is one of the main issues that folks have with PCGen. And you've already ruled out data, since you hate how DMGenie does it via the scripts.

My definition was in response to everything the original poster wanted. And, I haven't ruled out data - it is *easy* to enter the data for a new feat, class, etc. It is only if you want the data to result in a condition that automatically recalculates/affects the stats that you have to script stuff - and since it is done in VB, I find it tedious unless I am working from an existing script.

 

[soulcatcher]

The fact that when I open up an .lst file and have to constantly refer back to a list of tags (i.e. what PREALIGN: 3,4,5,6,7,8 means is a heck of a lot harder to remember than what PREALIGN: LG, NG, CG,... means) makes it too cumbersome.

Actually, we fixed that specific one. you can use LG, NG, etc. I understand your point, but in this specific instance, we fixed it.

 

[andargor]

Perhaps it is no wonder I took a very long sabbatical from coding any more tools.

There is no easy answer to why there aren't more tools that satisfy what the community needs. A bit of everything that makes up the answer has been mentionned here: WotC licensing, a standardized set of rules (compared to earlier editions) that is however made to be broken, the time factor (for those coding freely), the money factor (for those coding commercially), how to maintain data and the rules that go with it, and so on.

We've had quite a few discussions on XML, d20 engines with APIs that can be reused by other coders, better GUIs, and so on and so forth. The point is, we are still pioneers, even after so many years of tools being produced.

Perhaps it is because we are always forced to change our code, change our data, whenever WotC or publishers see fit. Perhaps we are good at one thing, say the GUI, but we are not with the engine. And someone else is the opposite. An eternal string of prototypes.

I definitely think that without support for copyrighted material, any project will either fail or be of limited use. So, again, we patiently await WotC's strategy so that we may commit ourselves, financially or otherwise. Also, we don't yet have mature software for 3.5E, and 4E will peek above the horizon shortly...

But I am glad that the discussions still rage.

 

[Ranger REG]

I definitely think that without support for copyrighted material, any project will either fail or be of limited use.

That's the hangup, isn't it? Out of all the items on our wishlist for a decently functioning roleplaying tool app, support for future non-OGC copyrighted material (in some form of an expansion software or dataset) is near the top. (In my wishlist, that ranks low.)

And yet, you guys already know that those material won't be added to the SRD in the near future. So what you want WotC to do?

 

[TogaMario]

Well if you don't mind a newbie program for your mapping (along with the fact that you'd probably need/want to make your own art content), my FreeCountry mapping program is both free, and (as far as I can tell) functioning well. Granted, there is a major optimization needed (and coming) and a few GUI fixes, but it's more or less as easy to use as paint (with much better results )

 

[Lilith]

I didn't even come close to tackling the issues with an actual character generator, so I opted instead to create a place to have people post their NPCs for others to share. So far, it's worked out pretty good. There are 811 stat blocks, plus lists of creatures, classes, spells & powers, and "stuff." A town generator, treasure generator, mercenary jobs, encounters, benign encounters, with more stuff to come. If you're curious, head on over to dmtools.org.

 

[LrdApoc]

That's the hangup, isn't it? Out of all the items on our wishlist for a decently functioning roleplaying tool app, support for future non-OGC copyrighted material (in some form of an expansion software or dataset) is near the top. (In my wishlist, that ranks low.)

And yet, you guys already know that those material won't be added to the SRD in the near future. So what you want WotC to do?

Agreed, WotC is not going to add that IP to the SRD. Fine with me so long as I have an easy way to enter it in my character generation tool - a way that is intuitive, guided and easy to teach someone who is not a computer oriented user.

I can handle the LST files in PCGen, it takes some work and examples to get the hang of the syntax and all but I can guarantee that most of my players won't take that time.

I don't mind adding in new feats, spells, etc. by hand because like many have said in many threads they don't use everything in every book - but when they need to use something I think it should be easy to add to their personal custom dataset. My electronic tools supplement my paper ones they don't supplant them.

The more I look over PCGen the more I see its potential as an application - but for me the tools biggest weakness is the lack of simple wizard based custom data entry. DMGenie (which I just downloaded for a trial) gets closer to what is needed here but the interface is still too spreadsheet like for an average user and does not hand hold enough for John Q.

I can't speak to HeroLab because it doesn't seem to let you add custom content or at least not in the "limited feature" trial version. Though I think they are closer on the GUI resolution than many of the other tools.

I guess for my use the ability to add new data is the most important - I am not looking to buy huge datasets of information when I might only need two or three feats from a book. I guess I see the custom data as an incrimentally growing base rather than an inclusive one.