I think it's obvious that both Doctor Strange and Iron Man have exactly that defining moment of realization. Tony Stark's brief stay IN A CAVE WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS is particularly iconic.
A fair point, I see a different pathos in the moments, perhaps because Peter Parker was Spider-Man by the point in his story when it happens, but Tony Stark's moment is when he becomes Iron Man.
But I think the points I've been trying to make are fairly clear, despite some give or take on the specific details. There is a different story that can be told with power that comes out of nowhere as compared to power that you seek out and grasp.
You and others keep parroting that line & despite having previously admitted that there are a handful of spells that are pretty much required to be taken or face irrelevance not one person who's brought it up has been willing to admit specifically what spells among that handful of wizard specific spells you think creates the leap or what the spell list or theme of a character specializing in those wizard specific spells would look like.
You are avoiding the question I've been quite clear through this thread that the sorcerer copies or steals far too much from wizard. You on the other hand keep suggesting that wizards have some gigantic cache of meaningful "toys" as someone put it earlier yet you resort to character assassination & change the subject when pressed for details. Stop avoiding the subject and backup your poor argument or drop the nonsense.
You... You copied and pasted yourself? Wow, some dedication to that particular line and phrase.
So, do you want specific spells that a wizard has that makes them better than a sorcerer? (Point marked in blue) or What list or theme would come from specializing in them? (in the red)
Actually the red is an easy one, to a degree, even without looking at sublcasses I see Wizards have sole access to a lot of spells involving force constructs. Tenser's Disc, Magic Weapon, Tiny Hut, Resilient Sphere, Wall of Force, Bigby's hand, you can add dimensional magics too with Rope Trick, Mordenkainen;s Mansion, Demiplane, Planar Binding.
Of course, you could also add in Xanathar's spells and talk about Catapult, Snare, Earthbind, Steel Wind Strike, Scatter, Tenser's Transformation, Invulnerability.
So, a wizard based around the manipulation of space and energy is decently easy to build with almost all wizard exclusive spells.
But, that isn't what your main point seems to be, you seem to think the Sorcerer "Stole" from the wizard. Yet, your only defense of that claim seems to be violently pointing towards the shared arcane spells and declaring loudly "THEY HAVE THE SAME SPELLS, SORCERERS ARE THIEVES" which seems to beg the question, why is it not the other way around?
Since they share so many spells, can we not say that Wizard's stole from Sorcerers? I mean (sarcasm incoming) they come first in the PHB, so clearly the wizard just copied them, right?
No, that was sarcasm, clearly that didn't happen.
But, it is weird isn't it? If you look at all of the spells across the entire game, Sorcerers get (to my knowledge) only one single unique spell. Chaos Bolt. And it sucks, by the way.
Warlocks get unique spells. Bards get some (not more than like five though I think) clerics and druids get unique spells. Even Ranger's and Paladin's get unique spells.
Sorcerers don't. Is it because Sorcerers are thieves who cannot stand on their own? Or is it more likely that the designers just made them discount wizards and just copy pasted the spell list because they didn't see the point in trying to make them unique? And, if that was the case, is that the fault of the Sorcerer? A lot of us who are fans of sorcerers would love unique spells, we don't want to just be second-rate wizards. But, we weren't given that opportunity. Saying that it is our own fault for stealing from the wizard, when we were forced to accept the copy-paste we never wanted is kind of crappy. We want a unique class, we don't want to be a copy paste.
So, maybe, just maybe, we can make more progress in this discussion if you stop accusing sorcerers of stealing everything from the wizard, and instead we start talking more about how to differentiate them. Maybe without saying "design an entirely unique spell list using none of the material already existing in the game" since, you know, creating 200 something unique spells is more than a touch challenging for a single individual.
While true, that role heavily contributes to identity & none of those spells you finally admitted to talking about amount to much of a role Bards druids & clerics bring significant class specific abilities to the table beyond just the spell list... Sorcerer is problematic because it does not, it steals & copies too much from wizard to just tack "but improved" onto wizard.
I shouldn't bite, but I will
How exactly is the sorcerer "but improved" on the wizard with fewer spells, fewer spells per day, fewer uses of their subclass abilities (oh, you want to do something. That will cost sorcery points), and keeping the same restrictive HD, Armor (ie none) weapons (that's a joke)
The Dresden files books protagonist, who’s name escapes me, was no scholar.
Harry Blackstone Dresden.
