one hit kills, unsatisfying?

[Scribble]

So... I don't think I would have a problem with 1 HP minions. In fact, I'd prefer if that was the norm. Because otherwise, in 4E, Joe Bandit is about as tough as the Hulk.

Thats pretty much how I see it as well.

The vast majority of the world are minions. They're not the "weaker form" of other things, they're the normal state.

The normal bandit is a minion. A guy who has a knife a bow and a desire to rob other people. He listens to the bandit lord, and does what he's told for the most part.

Certain people and creatures are better though. These are the people with HPs. The people who's will to live and effect their world are greater then others. The people destined to leave more of a mark on the world.


The Bandit Lord, and maybe a few of his right hand men. They're the ones with HP.

In an encounter the minions aren't realy the main focus. They're attacking the PCs mainly because they're just told to do so by their leader. Once the real threat, the Bandit lord is disposed of, they're much less inclined to still attack the PCs.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I'd prefer if they had only 1 HP. My biggest complaint about 4E's gameplay, philosophical issues aside, is that everything has a preposterous amount of hit points. Even scabby caravan guards can have like 60 HP. Remember when Conan had to stand around hitting toothless, minimum-wage palookas like 20 times each with his claymore before these tireless yahoos would drop? Neither do I... I also do not remember that.

Kobolds, goblins, normal guards without name tags, any of these guys work just great with only 1 or 2 hit points. The real silliness comes up when minions get scaled up to level 20+ winged demons and still just have that 1 hit point even though the PCs may have fought one of its kind in a previous adventure where it took all of thier resources and 10 shots from a +5 bazooka to put it down. It works as a game mechanic but fails at fitting into a campaign world that makes sense.

 

[Scribble]

Kobolds, goblins, normal guards without name tags, any of these guys work just great with only 1 or 2 hit points. The real silliness comes up when minions get scaled up to level 20+ winged demons and still just have that 1 hit point even though the PCs may have fought one of its kind in a previous adventure where it took all of thier resources and 10 shots from a +5 bazooka to put it down. It works as a game mechanic but fails at fitting into a campaign world that makes sense.

Maybe for you, but for me it makes perfect sense.

The PCs have gotten to the point that while these creatures may be a force more determined to exist in the world then the average joe, the PCs have become so much more of a force in the world that these things essentially are the same to them as average joes...

 

[Nightson]

Kobolds, goblins, normal guards without name tags, any of these guys work just great with only 1 or 2 hit points. The real silliness comes up when minions get scaled up to level 20+ winged demons and still just have that 1 hit point even though the PCs may have fought one of its kind in a previous adventure where it took all of thier resources and 10 shots from a +5 bazooka to put it down. It works as a game mechanic but fails at fitting into a campaign world that makes sense.

Having the enemy that was hard at lower levels be easier at higher levels is practically a staple of fantasy.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Maybe for you, but for me it makes perfect sense.

The PCs have gotten to the point that while these creatures may be a force more determined to exist in the world then the average joe, the PCs have become so much more of a force in the world that these things essentially are the same to them as average joes...

It is more satisfying to me as a player when creatures that used to be a challenge, get punked in a single hit not because some game construct turned them into a balloon, but rather because my character is so badass that he can just do it.

With a high level minion, your character doesn't have to be that big a force in the world, he just has to be lucky enough to connect. Any shlub adventurer that rolls high enough could do it.

 

[Jack99]

With a high level minion, your character doesn't have to be that big a force in the world, he just has to be lucky enough to connect. Any shlub adventurer that rolls high enough could do it.

If you meet a monster that is much higher level, it's not a minion.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Having the enemy that was hard at lower levels be easier at higher levels is practically a staple of fantasy.

Absolutely correct. The real question becomes, easier due to what? Is it easier because the skills of the character have gotten that much better in a few levels or because the universe suddenly decided that the monsterous beast that took 12 arrows and several strokes with a greataxe to bring down, now collapses after being pimp slapped?

 

[Scribble]

It is more satisfying to me as a player when creatures that used to be a challenge, get punked in a single hit not because some game construct turned them into a balloon, but rather because my character is so badass that he can just do it.

With a high level minion, your character doesn't have to be that big a force in the world, he just has to be lucky enough to connect. Any shlub adventurer that rolls high enough could do it.

In my campaign low level adventurers don't randomly face minion Demons. A Demon would never be a minion for a low level adventurer.

It would only show up as a mionion when the adventurers have reached the point where their force of being in the world is that great.

 

[Harlekin]

A minion kill? That's your problem! A good AOE can take out 3 or 4 minions in a turn! Now that's cool!

Speaking from practical experiences, my players consider killing a single minion an OK turn, but they really like if they manage to kill 3-4 minions in a single attack.

Minions serve sometimes as an important backdrop for the fight, they allow for fights against large numbers of meaningful enemies, if the story calls for it.

 

[ExploderWizard]

In my campaign low level adventurers don't randomly face minion Demons. A Demon would never be a minion for a low level adventurer.

It would only show up as a mionion when the adventurers have reached the point where their force of being in the world is that great.

I understand that part. What I am saying is if thier force of being gets that great then they should be one shotting real demons. If a creature has to be turned into one hit wonder to represent that the PCs have become badass, then the PC really are not so bad after all.