one hit kills, unsatisfying?

[Hella_Tellah]

I dislike minions because they're obvious. Nothing* else in the game goes down in one hit, so when you kill one, you know you killed a minion.

*Except when a striker crits, then I suppose that sometimes you get to one-shot a creature.

 

[op1983]

If the enemy is unimportant to the story or character developement in a way that would make the fight against them significant then why create all enemies so strong that the heroes have to swing all day to kill them? I suppose if heroes do nothing but slaughter hordes of scrubs it isnt very heroic. But if the real bagguy is hiding behind a bunch of scrubs then the hero would axe thru them to get to the real badguy. No sense in making a fight long and drawnout when it doesnt need to be.

I think this is possibly the intent of minions. Minions aren't meant to be the main source of enemy you fight. They are there to add flavor to make fights against other enemies different.

 

[Duskblade]

Still using 3E/Pathfinder, but my experience is quite the opposite. I find one-hit kills to be very satisfying.

I go to intimidate detail about the movements of my characters and NPCs, making it even more dramatic. My DM loves it. I can't wait to try it as a DM.

 

[Stalker0]

To me, minions are the most satisfying to kill when they are a threat, and as such you have get a little creative to make them a threat.

One houserule I use in my game is that for aid another, 1 are not auto failures (for both players and monsters). My party is at 8th, so all my minions autosucceed.

Its amazing the difference in an elite brute monster when this little shlub comes around and suddenly gives that guy +4 to hit!! (+2 for flanking, +2 for aid).

I think you also can get creative with the minion idea, especially at higher levels when autodamage becomes more frequent. In one fight, I used special zombie minions that were powered by a dark crystal (that the party could destroy). The zombie's died like minions, but on there next turn they could make a saving throw to stand by up. However, on a crit they were permanently destroyed.

 

[DeusExMachina]

IT depends on how the DM uses them. If it's just those 4 guys you kill at the start of the combat after which the real enemies are engaged, it's just a useless speedbump and not very dramatic.

If for example during the combat a wave of reinforcements (say 4 minions) show up that help the skirmishers flank some of the PC's, then suddenly it becomes very important to take those minions out and it will be far more satisfying.

Also recently I ran a zombie horde scenario. The party was stuck in a small building surrounded by a cemetary that had risen into a large amount of zombie minions. I just put down 30 or so minions and all that were killed were replaced at the back of the battlemat each turn. The party had to fight their way to the exit and get the hell out of there.
Suddenly minions were a big deal, because the pc's could easily get overwhelmed without planning and proper movement. In the end they all made it out, but they were down on all their healing powers, only a few surges left and no more dailies. They killed 42 zombie minions and it was one of the most satisfying encounters I've run.

So either use em smart or use em in large amounts I guess. Satisfaction in taking someone down comes largely from how big a potential problem that enemy presented in being able to kill you (or helping others to kill you) or in preventing you from getting to something or someone you want. If the minions represent that ins ome way, they won't feel cheap to kill...

 

[Jack99]

To me, minions are the most satisfying to kill when they are a threat, and as such you have get a little creative to make them a threat.

I house-ruled minions long ago as well. My minions do damage as they would have had they been a normal monster of said level. This does make them significantly more of a threat at times, especially at range (We had a minions do more than 90 damage to the players before it died in one combat).

Last time we played, my players ported out of the Trollhaunt and landed smack in the middle of a troll/fey goblin/treant attack on an eladrin town. There was fey goblins everywhere, and they just came rushing at the players, with the odd troll accompanying them at times. 40 fey goblins (level 10 minions) later, there was finally an opening so that the players could find a safer place. We all had a blast and they were very happy with the battle. This is the third time I have used a lot of minions to create a fun encounter, and each time the players have been nothing but positive about it. So I would have to disagree with the OP. Killing stuff in one hit can be satisfying, at least in 4e.

 

[Kraydak]

...
Having a Big Bad that's been built up over several encounters go down in a single hit? That's deeply unsatisfying, both for the GM (who spent all this time building the BB up) and the players, who were expecting a dramatic confrontation
....

Why is it that everyone assumes that the Cleric who loads Slay Living, carefully hoards the spell, and then uses it on the BBEG... will be disappointed if it works? I see that assumption quite frequently (often as an excuse for fudging the dice), but I would rather say that the cleric's player is explicitly saying "I wanna 1-hit the boss" (and if you aren't going to let him, tell him upfront that the spell was nerfed FF style).

 

[ExploderWizard]

Why is it that everyone assumes that the Cleric who loads Slay Living, carefully hoards the spell, and then uses it on the BBEG... will be disappointed if it works? I see that assumption quite frequently (often as an excuse for fudging the dice), but I would rather say that the cleric's player is explicitly saying "I wanna 1-hit the boss" (and if you aren't going to let him, tell him upfront that the spell was nerfed FF style).

4E avoids this problem by having no power that justs flat out kills anything. Combat with a BBEG just isn't fun if you don't grab the BBEG, apply a headlock, and sit in the middle of the ring grinding it for 50 rounds.

I don't ever recall being pleased as player when a major real enemy got wiped out in one shot. It made my character feel too darn awesome and that just wasn't fun.

 

[Scribble]

I think you've got a real point here on the perception angle. If you don't know the thing is going to be taken out by one blow, and you roll well and it goes down, it's awesome. That includes taking down the BBEG too, though it may also be a little anticlimactic too. Still one-hitting a major opponent is the stuff gamers will talk about years later.

If you know the thing will go down with a single hit, even your weakest, it's not quite as fun.

I think that's part of the point of the minion though. They're not really supposed to be fun to kill. (Unless you're just like a mindless killer who just loves slaughterin dudes or soemthin.) It's just that you have to.

 

[Korgoth]

I've tried 4E a couple times now (some gents graciously allowing me to join their game) but I haven't gotten to experience "real" Minions. In this game's house rules, Minions have reduced HP but not 1.

I'd prefer if they had only 1 HP. My biggest complaint about 4E's gameplay, philosophical issues aside, is that everything has a preposterous amount of hit points. Even scabby caravan guards can have like 60 HP. Remember when Conan had to stand around hitting toothless, minimum-wage palookas like 20 times each with his claymore before these tireless yahoos would drop? Neither do I... I also do not remember that.

My approach in OD&D and other old school games is just to say that the vast majority of guards, soldiers, thugs, etc. are either "Normal Men" or 1st level Fighting Men... thus usually having 3-5 HP (a big dude might have 1 or 2 more, a scrawny dude 1 less). Which means that a PC Fighting Man is going to get 1 attack per round per level against most of them, and if he is strong like Conan (15+) and has a two-hander he rolls 1d6+2 damage... which will usually mean a one shot kill on these clowns. Which is as it should be, going from the source literature.

So... I don't think I would have a problem with 1 HP minions. In fact, I'd prefer if that was the norm. Because otherwise, in 4E, Joe Bandit is about as tough as the Hulk.