one last choice on building a wizard...

[evilbob]

But it kind of determines a huge deal for the character. Effectively, my choice is:
a) do I go for arcane reach at level 21, or
b) do I start with a +3 Wis modifier.

Here are my breakdowns:

Things that will not change either way:
- controller human wizard
- 16 Int boosted to 18, 8 Str, 12 Cha (to catch spell focus at 11)
- some starting power choices (scorching ray + thunderwave at-wills, cold AOE as encounter)
- paragon, epic paths (divine oracle, demigod)

choice a
- stats: 16, 14, 13, 13, 12, 8. Starting with a 13 Dex and intending to hit 15 at level 21 to catch arcane reach.
- Staff wielder with the intention of grabbing orbs at level 11.
- Would take new illusion daily spell (dragon magazine) and cold AOE daily as my two dailies, and cloud of daggers as 3rd at-will
pluses:
- Much more "rounded" character. No negatives (except Str, duh) and qualifies for a very wide range of feats. I could even snag evasion later on (which, since my Int -> reflex is high, is not a bad choice).
- Staff + leather + 18 Int = 17 AC to start with.
- "eh" bonus to HP, init, and several skills
- open to new splatbooks giving a wider range of feats that require stats
minuses:
- Never be able to make up that -5% to orb abilities later; cloud of daggers and thunderwave are -1 to their extras forever as well.
- Most of the current feat options that I'm opening up suck.

choice b
- stats: 16, 16, 12, 12, 10, 8. Dex drops to 10 and Con drops to 12 so that Wis can go to 16.
- Orb wielder with the intention of grabbing staves at level 11
- Would take acid splash and sleep as first two dailies, along with new illusion at-will (dragon magazine)
pluses:
- +5% to save penalties and +1 to thunderwave. New illusion at-will can be extended if I don't boost my daily.
- Actually able (at level 28) to cause a creature to have -10 to a save with the orb.
- The feats I'm losing I can live without.
negatives:
- Much more focused character means feat options are slightly more limited.
- Missing "eh" bonus to HP, init, skills.
- Future splats may have something better that requires extra stats.


Effectively, I'm deciding "staff or orb" for the first 11 levels, along with some other minor bonuses and tradeoffs.

I've checked: there are 5 spells from level 1 to 11 that I would take that could benefit from an orb, and 4 of them are level 1 stuff. (Including the illusion magic from the dragon magazine.) So giving up orb for the first 11 levels is pretty easy.

Also, the orb abuses are more "save or die" oriented, in that they either work or they do not. So, sometimes "yay!" but other times "boo."

On the other hand, you can never get that 5% back, and it does make the difference at level 28 of giving -9 to giving -10 to a save. That's also a bunch more time that I -could- be trying to get a "yay!" while I'm working up the levels.

Conversely, high AC and decent well-rounded character seems much more stable overall, especially for the long haul. It seems easier to just "play" that character.

These powers would also shy away from stuff like sleep and go with more "at least I did something" powers. So instead it's either "cool" or "well, ok."

And arcane reach is definitely awesome - at least two of my final dailies (and one at-will) will be able to use it.

But, we're talking level 21 before I can even get it. Which is forever. And campaigns end before forever happens. And I could be using that +1 to Wisdom immediately for orb powers and skills.

But I could also be using that +1 to HP, init, and several off-skills immediately as well.


I can just keep coming up with good reasons on both sides!!! I feel stuck - although I admit that at the moment it's about 51% staff/reach and 49% orb/sleep. Anyone else have suggestions?

 

[James McMurray]

Will your GM let you try one out and change things around in a level or three? So you could start as a Staff or Orb focused wizard and see how you like it for until, say, 4th level. Then at that point if it's not as sexy as it looked, do a minor shuffle to change your focus?

 

[Cadfan]

Honestly, other than feat prereqs, you're dealing with such small numbers that you shouldn't worry about it. Pick what you think is coolest in an abstract sense.

 

[Budalic]

paragon, epic paths (divine oracle, demigod)

Why you aren't going to take archmage?

It's built especially for wizard, focusing on reusing dailies.

 

[evilbob]

James McMurray: I think my DM will allow multiple switches throughout level 1, but once we get past level 2 or so I think he's going to want us to settle down. Great suggestion, though!

Cadfan: Yeah... I think you've got a good point.

Budalic: What can I say? I've compared archmage and demigod and chosen the one I like best for this character. I think archmage has some great advantages but demigod works best for me. (Also I think it will fit my character concept best.)

 

[Eric Tolle]

This should be the part where I start grumbling about players who are so sure their characters will live to level 21 that they start making plans. "Back in the day, we didn't count on making level 2, dangit!".

It's still not as bad as the BESM character where the starting character came complete with a description in detail where the next fifty points of experience were going to go. "What makes you think you're going to GET experience, huh?"

 

[Tony Vargas]

You'll probably find the better-rounded staff wizard more survivable at low level, and more interesting through all 30 levels. The more you can do, and the fewer your blind spots, the more you get to participate. Your multiple good stats broaden your feat selection and make you better at some skills, as well as just coming off more generally capable.

It's very true that you never catch up on the 4e treadmill, if your best thing could have been another +1 better, you'll never make it that +1 better. But, you pay a high price to have it better.

 

[the_redbeard]

I have to say that I like the orb. Not just the save or die on the big bad, but in a big battle extending the duration of a bad AoE zone another round for the rest of the party to knock the bad guys into it could also be an encounter-winning power.

 

[evilbob]

You'll probably find the better-rounded staff wizard more survivable at low level, and more interesting through all 30 levels. The more you can do, and the fewer your blind spots, the more you get to participate. Your multiple good stats broaden your feat selection and make you better at some skills, as well as just coming off more generally capable.

It's very true that you never catch up on the 4e treadmill, if your best thing could have been another +1 better, you'll never make it that +1 better. But, you pay a high price to have it better.

This is my gut feeling and so far I think this thread has only convinced me further. Thanks!