D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Shadowedeyes]

I'm... not a huge fan of psions from a thematic standpoint. Mechanically they have never really clicked well with the various systems either I think. So, I'd rather the sorcerer ate their lunch, from a completely personal standpoint.

Metamagic was an interesting choice as the niche for sorcerers in 5e, and I don't completely hate the idea. The implementation was kinda boring though, and seemingly resulted in WotC being really afraid to give them interesting spells to boot.

 

[CleverNickName]

The REAL problem is Wizards and Sorcerers should BOTH have metamagics.

The Metamagic Adept feat is a good way to patch this. A generous DM could give it out to wizards for free at 1st level. A less generous DM could give it out to wizards at 1st level in exchange for the Arcane Recovery feature. And a more generous DM would also allow this feat to be taken multiple times.

I'd personally go with the second, less-generous option but I don't think any of them would break anything.

 

[cbwjm]

Sounds like your a proponent of the likes of Forgotten Realms “chosen”, where only a handful of individuals has that spark in the first place to be lucky enough to draw on magic. Some in FR might have extensive knowledge about magic and theories, but unless they have that spark, they’ll never be able to cast so much as a cantrips.

Somewhat also seen in Harry Potter; a “muggle” will never be able to use magic, even if they spent years studying (or like Filtch, having stunted magical ability that could never be improved - a great candidate for someone who might have the magic initiate feat, but never takes a level in Wizard.

Or, Jedi.

There was a time I agreed with this “specialness” for game reasons, but I’m not so inclined anymore. I’ll leave it at that.

Honestly, it's more of a setting thing that anything that will affect players. If I have players starting out as a fighter then multiclassing into wizard or sorcerer then they have the spark, my little rant won't stop that.

It's also about character adaptations, people seem so locked into the WotC class stories that anyone who has some innate magic must be a sorcerer, even though the characters whole story seems to be more wizard (I get that adapting characters from literary sources to dnd isn't an exact science).

 

[Minigiant]

The Metamagic Adept feat is a good way to patch this. A generous DM could give it out to wizards for free at 1st level. A less generous DM could give it out to wizards for free at 1st level in exchange for the Arcane Recovery feature. And a very generous DM would also let characters take that feat multiple times.

I'd personally go with the second option but I don't think any of them would break anything.

My house rule is

Wizards can learn and prepare Metamagic into spells and spend Arcane Recovery to cast a Metamagiced Spell o Regain spell slots.

Sorcerers can spend 150% Sorcery points to use a Metamagic they don't know.

But still Metamagic should have been split.

 

[cbwjm]

I agree. We've used the born with the talent for all wizards since 1st edition.

Its a common trope in literature.

RITUALS are the things anyone can learn if they study enough.

That I like and have done with rituals in my setting, even creating some that are completely divorced from spells and character level. Getting the bits together for the ritual might be difficult though.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Honestly, it's more of a setting thing that anything that will affect players. If I have players starting out as a fighter then multiclassing into wizard or sorcerer then they have the spark, my little rant won't stop that.

It's also about character adaptations, people seem so locked into the WotC class stories that anyone who has some innate magic must be a sorcerer, even though the characters whole story seems to be more wizard (I get that adapting characters from literary sources to dnd isn't an exact science).

I guess my problem is...I don't really know what stories would make more sense for that. E.g. Harry Potter is a world where there really is such a thing as magic genetics, and yet I would 110% still say that every Harry Potter magic-user is a D&D Wizard, some are just really bad at being Wizards.

My house rule is

Wizards can learn and prepare Metamagic into spells and spend Arcane Recovery to cast a Metamagiced Spell o Regain spell slots.

Sorcerers can spend 150% Sorcery points to use a Metamagic they don't know.

A reasonable house rule. Do Sorcerers get anything else out of the Wizard now getting flexible access to their core class feature? Y'know, given Wizards were already a stronger class than Sorcerer to begin with.

But still Metamagic should have been split.

The one and only way that flies is if Sorcerers get substantially more class features than they actually have. Because as it stands, the one and only thing you get that isn't from subclass IS your sorcery points and metamagic. If Wizards also had it, then Sorcerers straight up would just be crappy, inferior Wizards with a different casting stat.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

My house rule is

Wizards can learn and prepare Metamagic into spells and spend Arcane Recovery to cast a Metamagiced Spell o Regain spell slots.

Sorcerers can spend 150% Sorcery points to use a Metamagic they don't know.

But still Metamagic should have been split.

The issue is that metamagic is literally the only unique thing about the sorcerer class. If you give it to others the class has no reason to exist. Which is fine by me as I don’t think it should.

 

[cbwjm]

The issue is that metamagic is literally the only unique thing about the sorcerer class. If you give it to others the class has no reason to exist. Which is fine by me as I don’t think it should.

I do feel like they could be merged into a single class, I could throw warlock in there as well. Options at 1st level would then change how the class then actually worked (essentially build your own arcanist), but that might be more complicated than many would like.

 

[Stormonu]

Yeah, in those worlds that use the “spark” trope, I’d always considered that those who dialed-classed or multi-classed into the Wizard “had the spark”, they just possibly came into it late. If your character never took Wizard levels, you didn’t have the spark.

Prior to 3E, I seem to remember the character stories of magic-users always being one of intense training and study. No one had natural talent of the likes of the sorcerer, or at least, that I recall. The appearance of the 3E sorcerer opened up that possibility, and people jumped on it -“yeah, natural magic, like a dragon - because I’ve got some of that in me - why didn’t we think of this years ago?” was the sort of reaction me any my group had. And that seems to be a lot more common in YA modern fiction and the old “burning the midnight oil for years” just to make a few magic sparks has faded away. Self-discovery of innate power vs. study, research and hard labor. Personal growth vs. slaving away beneath another’s tutorage for jealousy guarded secrets.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I'm... not a huge fan of psions from a thematic standpoint. Mechanically they have never really clicked well with the various systems either I think. So, I'd rather the sorcerer ate their lunch, from a completely personal standpoint.

Metamagic was an interesting choice as the niche for sorcerers in 5e, and I don't completely hate the idea. The implementation was kinda boring though, and seemingly resulted in WotC being really afraid to give them interesting spells to boot.

elaborate on thematics as mechanics is normally fixable