One-use items and wealth rating

[Rkhet]

Does the wealth ratings take into account one-use items, such as potions and scrolls?

What I mean is, should PCs be poorer if they use more potions? And, if so, how long should the penalty to wealth last? Until next level or permanent?

 

[the Jester]

Remember that the 'average wealth' listing is just that- an average.

When you total a pc's valuables up, include potions and stuff. If you randomize your treasure, you'll come up with a bit extra compared to average wealth guidelines; this is to aid in balancing 'disposable' treasures.

 

[Krelios]

Basically, those guidelines assume that the rate at which the PCs are gaining disposable items is roughly equivalent to the rate at which they are using them. If you have 4 potions and use two of them, you should eventually recoup those losses as you continue to gain more. Of course, using more or less potions than "normal" (which isn't defined, per se) will throw off that curve.

 

[mvincent]

how long should the penalty to wealth last? Until next level or permanent?

Penalty to wealth? To be clear, (assuming standard games) the average wealth ratings only apply when you start a character... after that things can vary wildly.

As a DM it might be a good idea to monitor your players wealth a bit to try and keep them close to the expected average wealth levels (to keep cr's balanced), but it's not an implicit part of the game. Players that use up expensive items may have a hard time later (because they are low on gear). Miserly, prudent, wealthy or lucky characters might similarly have an easier time. That's the joy of open-ended role-playing.

Often this eventually balances out on its own though: overgeared characters will likely start facing tougher challenges so that their character levels catch up to their wealth. Conversly, under-geared characters will likely advance in levels more slowly until their gear catches up to their level.

 

[dcollins]

Does the wealth ratings take into account one-use items, such as potions and scrolls?

What I mean is, should PCs be poorer if they use more potions? And, if so, how long should the penalty to wealth last? Until next level or permanent?

The wealth ratings are averages, used for newly created characters. They do account for used potions in the past (by estimate). But they are not meant to be used to adjust PCs wealth while they are being played. They get what treasure the DM hands out with encounters, and lose whatever they use up, spend, or destroy.

There isn't supposed to be any in-game "refund" from the DM because they've used up their items. Occasionally the DM may wish to do a check and see if the PCs are way above or way below the averages, to see if he's been placing encounter treasure at the correct rate. But no automatic refunds from thin air.

 

[mvincent]

This reminds me of the anecdotes about cat and dog feeding:

If you leave a measured amount cat food out for a cat while you are away on vacation, the cat will likely eat the correct portion each day and be fine during your leave.

If you try the same thing with a dog, he will enthusiastically eat the entire amount on the first day, and then starve while he awaits your return.

PC's are more like the later.

 

[yennico]

If you try the same thing with a dog, he will enthusiastically eat the entire amount on the first day, and then starve while he awaits your return.

PC's are more like the later.

PCs are always greedy and treaure hunters

 

[ThirdWizard]

I do regular audits to see how close I am to being on track to wealth guidelines. They are not just for making new characters! They are guidelines for how much wealth a PC should have at a particular level as to be outfitted properly. The CR system assumes wealth as per those tables and, while not an exact science, vastly different amounts will mean you have to adjust encounters. A PC's wealth is sort of like its BAB. The game takes into account the resources a PC of a certain level will have when figuring out challenges.

Note I did say guideline.

Now, having said that, the table is current wealth. Expendable items used five levels ago should not infringe upon your current wealth. How long they will affect your wealth is up to the DM, of course, but usually I have them make up for major expended items within a level or so. If they spend a very large amount at once, say, for a Raise Dead, then putting the party down that 5000 gp below where they're supposed to be for two levels might be in order. But, it wasn't the intention that over time all those potions they use would accumulate so that they would be down that much gold.

 

[Bad Paper]

I do regular audits to see how close I am to being on track to wealth guidelines.

I do this, too, and it helps. If you have enough time, you can also doublecheck the modules you're running and see whether they are fair. e.g. Heart of Nightfang is almost dead on its target for treasure amounts, and how the PCs use their wealth during it, etc. Counterexample: the Standing Stone is ridiculously undertreasured. I added a big treasure to a major encounter that totally lacked it. (though not to an encounter that was designed to lack treasure, heh heh)

The problem with that system is this: in one of my campaigns (as PC, not DM) another player keeps pointing to the table in the DMG and loudly declaring that we are grossly undertreasured. He always does this immediately before a major treasure distribution, and it's getting a little out of hand. Each campaign is different, and I trust the DM to keep his eye on this sort of thing. I fend off this player by pointing out that he's the one who guzzles every damn curing potion we find.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I have an Excel spreadsheet that I plug numbers in and it compares to wealth guidelines and tells me how far off the mark I am. It helps a bunch, just plug the numbers in every once in a while and no real work for me. The only problem is figuring out the costs of all those custom items and innate abilities I hand out.

PCs really shouldn't care about those guidelines, though, unless its grossly different (higher or lower) and then they might want to talk with the DM about the game (not demand more items - talking). It's really just there to help the DM determine challenges, but I've seen a game where the wealth given out was way too low, and it shifted the dynamics of the game much more than we expected. I would say checking PC wealth against the table would probably be a good idea every four sessions or so for a "generic" paced game, or about once a level.