Only one thing bugs me about Monks...

[Dannyalcatraz]

So far, without changing FoB, scaling IUC (nat/manu treatment kept), AC/Wis bonuses, HD or BAB, some changes listed so far include:

Replacing abilities with spells that duplicate them is a wash. I'm thinking, due to their durations & dispellability, if nothing else.

I don't know how much of a boost the QP change is:

QP: usable 1 + Con bonus times/day; only one QP may be active at any one time.

A slight change from Shaman and Cleric would be to make them spontaneous divine casters with a tight, tight list, but keep them as having Domains matching their faith (assuming they're full casters). How many- 1 or 2- is the question. I was thinking that they'd know all the spells on their list, but would have fewer spells/day, one of each level having to be a Domain spell.

As a nod to the RW, a more flexible monk weapon list.

Weapon Proficiencies: The Martial Artist is proficient in all simple weapons, PLUS choose one of the following groups as the PC's Melee Martial Arts Weapons and additional Ranged weapons:

1) 1 One-handed and 2 Light Martial weapons + 1 Martial Ranged Weapon
2) 3 Exotic Light weapons + 1 Martial or Exotic Ranged Weapon
3) 1 Exotic Light Weapon + 1 Exotic One-handed weapon + 1 Martial Ranged Weapon
4) 1 Martial or Exotic 2 handed weapon + 1 Martial or Exotic Ranged Weapon
5) Any 5 Simple weapons +1 Martial or Exotic Ranged weapon

These Melee Martial arts weapons may be used with Flurry of Blows

Light armor proficiency

Spirit guide? If axed, probably replaced with divination spells.

Turn Spirits? Keep at least if half-caster. Too much for full caster?

 

[Sepulchrave II]

I'd suggest starting with the spell list itself - on top of the bare bones of the class - rather than trying to accommodate/balance it by modifying existing class abilities - i.e. pull out everything except spellcasting and think about other abilities later.

So d8 hit points, 3 good saves, 3/4 BAB, 4 skill points/level.

My gut feeling at this point would actually be to use the 2/3 spell progression (like the bard) because this can comfortably subsume some variant of higher-end monk abilities by translating them into spells.

Then I'd look at 6th-level spells (say levels 5-7, across all class spell lists) and see what jibed best with what is 'monkish'; for me harm, heal, wind walk, true seeing, stone tell, commune with nature seem a good fit. I like the idea of creeping doom too.

I'd drop QP altogether, and replace it with slay living but maybe bump it up a level - 6th-level spells would be available at level 16.

Appropriate lower-level spells would include levitate, speak with animals/plants, nondetection, stoneskin, detect thoughts etc. etc. yadda.

I'd give Eschew Materials for free.

Beyond this, things start to get trickier. I'd retain the Wis bonus to AC. I'd retain Evasion and Improved Evasion. Neutralize poison and cure disease would replace the equivalent immunities; dimension door instead of abundant step. I'd lean more toward swift expeditious retreat over a speed bonus, possibly also with a higher-level variant which bumped the speed bonus up to 60ft.

Then I'd start to think about how unarmed damage worked.




BUT all that said and done, I think the basic problem with the monk is that we kind of expect him to be able to do everything, when in fact he can do very little very well. The reason I asked the extent to which balance was a consideration, and whether the solution you sought was systemic or game-specific is because in practice I believe the easiest solution is

1) Multiclass the PHB monk or;
2) Gestalt.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'd suggest starting with the spell list itself - on top of the bare bones of the class...

Then I'd start to think about how unarmed damage worked.

Lots of good suggestions on the spells & skeleton...

To avoid a huge power boost, I'm thinking the only self-buffs on their spell list should be thematic: stat-boosters should be low level; ditto healing; weapon boosters of moderate power. All ranged attack spells have a range from touch to no more than 30' (if any*); none at all with AoE.

All that said, I don't think I need to go over unarmed damage...I've been round & round on that with WizCustServ.

(Not saying I like the status quo, just saying this may not be the thread.)

BUT all that said and done, I think the basic problem with the monk is that we kind of expect him to be able to do everything, when in fact he can do very little very well. The reason I asked the extent to which balance was a consideration, and whether the solution you sought was systemic or game-specific is because in practice I believe the easiest solution is

1) Multiclass the PHB monk or;
2) Gestalt.

I know about and frequently use the various rules for multiclassing monks- see my sig- and I have no real interest in the gestalt rules- I'm just trying to make the Monk more congruent with other divine base classes in terms of overall mechanics.



* two 3rd party feats spring to mind: Ring the Golden Bell (DCv1) and Hands as Weapons (AU/AE). As bonus feats, they'd address a LOT of combat issues, esp. with a selection of touch spells available.