OOC - [Epic] Scions of the Endless Falls - Full

[Wrahn]

Couple of things Kelleris:

Comparing yourself to other characters, particularly at epic levels is usually an exercise in futility. Characters become so specialized at epic levels that they are going to have characteristics that far outweigh one side or the other.

I think the better thing to do is look at the Epic Level Handbook and look at CR 30 (Atropol +49 touch attack, Loci Genius +64 bash and Elder Titan +87 warhammer).

If you are really worried about devasting critical, there are ways of protecting yourself that don't include trying to do things against character conception. The easiest, obviously is to be immune to criticals.

Finally as far as the terminology goes, they are called character creation rules for a reason.

 

[Isida Kep'Tukari]

Er, not so much, since I don't have that book. What I had in mind wouldn't really require you to have the book anyway, just to decide if the gp cost and craft DC it comes up with is okay. You can arbitrarily fiddle with either if you like. Otherwise I guess I'll just have to forget about it, since the ELH web enhancement ones aren't really worth the effort.

Tell me what kind of DC and effects you were looking for, and I shall calculate the creation DC and gp cost.

It's not a Con penalty for the half-fey stuff. It's a Con penalty, not getting a +2 Wis, and not getting good-rated flight at double my speed. Like I said, that's too weak for +2 LA, but probably too much still for +1. This seemed like the natural way to make up the difference, and the extras didn't seem like too much in the context of the other stuff.

Also, I was kinda expecting some haggling over the half-fey. Start high, y'know.

Still, getting epic spells for those three things is a unbalanced exchange. Is there something else you want instead, aside from increasing your spell-like abilities?

I never said it was impossible to get a good AC, I said it was proving difficult, which it is. Part of the problem is that the standard varies wildly depending on what I use to compare. I'd need a 70-72 (with fighting defensively, haste, and expertise, not base) to even feel like standing near the elephant for a round, for instance, but that's unhittable by the druid and not even a passing fancy for the druid's cohort.

Don't worry about the other characters. Worry about the monsters you're going to face.

However, I need to get into melee range to do anything useful. My spells just aren't going to cut the mustard at this level, even if they cut the spell resistance, which I doubt very much. My death attack DC also refuses to go above 35 or so, even with some other stuff that you won't let me use. It would apparently take a lot more flexibility to make this work than is feasible, so I'm going to have to nix this character. There's just no way I'll be able to contribute at a level I'm comfortable with.

So, concentrate on spells that enhance yourself, rather than affecting others. I think you'll still get milage out of them.

I'll see if I can come up with something else, then. Otherwise, you have a pile of alternates to pick from. *ponders*

EDIT: No problem. In fairness, though, I either don't own or can't use most of those books (not getting a lot of mileage out of the MMIII, for one). And I tend to prefer out-of-the-way concepts, so I need a pretty wide selection to cover everything. Just the way it is, I guess. And the ELH doesn't help either; it goes out of its way to discourage anything other than the usual base classes, with some rare exceptions.

EDIT EDIT: The duelist question was not another character concept. It was an alternate way to get some more AC, via a cheesier and more powerful route than the feat I listed.

Well, I hope you can make this character work, or find one more to your liking. Unfortunetly, with the number of games I'm running and the number of possible combinations with various books, I'm coming down hard with the Iron DM Hammer of NO! in order to save my sanity.

ELH rewards those characters who didn't multiclass with the extra epic feats. However, those that do multiclass still get epic feats for their regular feats at epic levels, epic treasure, epic skills, and epic amounts of treasure. I think it's possible to make a viable multi-class epic character. *shrug*.

As for the duelist, I'd rather you take a PrC because it fits your character concept, not because you need a way to get more AC. I made prestige classes in my spare time, so perhaps I can assist you in that respect.

I understand your frustration to an extent Kelleris, with my paladin/anti-paladin duo I'm having a hell of a time thinking of any PrC that fits my character concept. One person suggested the cavalier, but I can only take so much mountedness before I get tired of it. Plus it really pidgeon-holes a character only be effective when he has his mount.

I want the dark and tormented good guy and the bitter and tormented bad guy, the lone warrior type thing (the ghostwalker prestige class almost fit this)

Maybe the paladin/anti-paladin thing ain't working so well.

What? Paladin on one side, Fighter/Blackguard on the other. That works, doesn't it? Anyways, what exactly were you looking for in a prestige class?

Isida, might I try an alternate spin on it, rather than Good vs. Evil to Law vs. Chaos (monk one side, barbarian the other). Although that's asking a little more I think.

That could be messy. I'm not exactly sure how to pull that off.

Maybe you'll end up with a psion afterall ;-) Oh yeah, if I go psion, can I use the Constructor PrC off of the Minds Eye? And if then, what about adding more levels of astral construct. At 30th level those 9th level constructs seem pretty paltry.

Argh... scatter-brained ferrix.

Add to the prereqs, must be able to manifest 3rd level powers. Also, explain to me your higher levels of astral construct. Are you thinking of adding some more buffness to prexisting astral constructs?

I was wondering if the sadism and/or masichism (specifically sasdism) could be converted to or researched as psionic powers? They would be telepath powers, because that's what I assume is the most correct, flavor wise. However, i'm not sure about augmentation, if there would be any at all, aside from being able to increase the spell's duration. As for a suggested spell level, it fits well along the line of 2nd level psychic warrior powers, such as strength of my enemy. Also, it would probably be best that it be a 3rd level psion/wilder power (however, that choice is up to you).

So, can I pretty-pretty-please have sadism?

edit: I was wondering, should I post my character here in this thread, or hold on till the rogue thread is up?

Sadism will be a 2nd level psion/wilder power of the psychometabolism school. Characters for alternates will be posted in an Alternates Rouges' Gallery, once I put it up.

 

[Serpenteye]

Serpenteye - one must have 20 levels of sorcerer to take epic sorcerer levels. That's the trade off for prestige class abilities at lower levels. So you could take epic levels of archmage if you max that out, but no levels of epic sorcerer until you are a 20th level sorcerer. Not with 20 level of spellcasting, but with 20 levels of the spellcasting class. The bonus epic feats are the reward for sticking with straight sorcerer for 20 levels.

That's ok, I'll work around it. There are other ways to make you cry, perfectly legal ways... ().

 

[Kangaxx]

Wow, this place has been busy.

Ferrix, thanks for taking the time to write up a detailed explanation for the sneak attack rules. I'm glad to have that resolved, as least for this campaign.

Kelleris, the only way you can expect to be able to stand up to the guy with 60 str is by having 60 dex. He would kill himself in 2 rounds of full attacking. I actually considered making a character that was specialized in being able to stand up to an assault like that, (primarily a monk) but decided he would be boring.

Wrahn, you've inspired me with your individual item backgrounds. That's a great way to flesh out a character, so I'm going to follow suit.

Today is looking pretty busy, so I probably won't have enough time to finish Pilmer. But you can expect him to be posted sometime tomorrow.

 

[Wrahn]

I can't take credit for the item history. Isida in her other game suggested it and I also found that it was a good way to flesh out a character. Both in the big ways and the little ones.

 

[Kelleris]

Okay. I think I can manage this, I just need to rejigger the character quite a bit. Death attack just became a purely flavor ability (!) and direct damage dealing is right out. Just have to try something different, I suppose, since the original concept can't survive unchanged.

Two epic feats to ask about, pretty simple ones so you don't have anything to keep track of, Isida. One is a flat bonus, and the other adds one thing to my (already-long) list of buffs:

Weaver of Symphonies [Epic]
Prerequisite: Perform 25 ranks, bardic music class feature.

Benefit: The character can maintain any two of his or her bardic music abilities simultaneously. They still require the normal amount of time to use, however. It requires a Concentration check (DC 10 + required Perform ranks) to begin the second ability without losing the first.

Special: You may take this feat twice. If you do, you gain the ability to maintain three bardic music abilities simultaneously. The Concentration check to start the third ability is DC 15 + required Perform ranks.

It's like the primary bardic instruments in Song and Silence, but as an innate ability. Don't make me lug around an animated pipe organ!

Unwhispered Secrets [Epic]
Even things that nobody consciously knows tend to find their way into your mind. Through long training, your mind can corroborate and extrapolate already-known facts to an astounding degree.

Prerequisite: 20 levels in a class that grants the bardic knowledge or lore ability

Benefit: You gain a +10 bonus on all bardic knowledge or lore checks.

Unwhispered Secrets : Epic Skill Focus :: Obscure Lore : (3.5) Skill Focus

ASIDE: Actually, Wrahn, I disagree. For one, I couldn't care less about the monsters; I want to be balanced with the other party members. Any DM worth their salt can deal with a party that, as a whole, is weak or strong for their level, but the tricky part is making sure that all the characters are balanced amongst each other. As a Dm who has long struggled with this issue while blithely ad-hocing every XP award I've handed out for years, I can speak from experience as to which is more tricky and more important.

Since I was attempting to make a character split between melee stuff and skills, with more emphasis on the melee stuff since skills are so easy to come by, I would expect to have maybe a 15-25% chance of beating an equal-level character completely tricked-out for melee. As it stands, though, the chances are more like one in a thousand. Maybe.

Aside from that, how am I supposed to use that range of numbers anyway? 49, 64, and 87 is such a broad range as to be meaningless for purposes of comparison.

 

[TheOneAboveAll]

Hey,

I had some computer issues but now they are fixed. I noticed I was on the list, is that still so?

 

[TheOneAboveAll]

For some reason I cannot get the roller to work, I keep getting some kind of microsoft error, could someone help me with that.

Also if there stillis a spot for me I would play a half celestial holy warrior of Pelor[or the resident sun god]

 

[Kelleris]

Most likely you just need to put in a note. They lie when they say it's optional. They lie!

 

[Isida Kep'Tukari]

Yes, fill out all the fields, and it will work. And you certainly are in TheOneAboveAll, and a half-celestial would be fine.

Kelleris, I approve of both of those feats.