OOC - [Epic] Scions of the Endless Falls - Full

[perivas]

perivas,

Don't you need epic leadership to have a cohort that powerful?

Also you forgot to subtract it's size modifier from it's armor class.

I have the Hit Points at 388 (5d8 from ECL, 7d8 from Plant, 4d12 from Barbarian, 4d10 from Ranger, 3d8 from Ranger + 230 from Con)

Thanks, man! Great catch on the AC and Hit Points...although you don't get 5d8 from the ECL for the HP, so my total is just 365. Yes, I do have Epic Leadership, which was costly.

 

[Kelleris]

Whew, thought someone else was wondering by to snipe at my requests.

If it's going to actively annoy other people in the party, I would advise just saying so. That would probably carry more weight with both myself and Isida than balance quibbles, especially since I think these are all quite defensible.

 

[Wrahn]

Thanks, man! Great catch on the AC and Hit Points...although you don't get 5d8 from the ECL for the HP, so my total is just 365. Yes, I do have Epic Leadership, which was costly.

I am playing in another game with Isida, she, in that game, gives you a d8 hitpoints for every ECL. I am assuming she give it here, but I suppose we should wait for official ruling.

 

[Wrahn]

Whew, thought someone else was wondering by to snipe at my requests.

If it's going to actively annoy other people in the party, I would advise just saying so. That would probably carry more weight with both myself and Isida than balance quibbles, especially since I think these are all quite defensible.

I can guess what Isida is going to say about the feats and the poison, she would prefer if you stuck with the rules she has available to her. I can't blame her, she is running about 50,000 games right now and she can't keep all the rules straight unless she sets her foot down on what she allows.

I have no idea what she is going to do with the spell progression, but I would guess getting it by her is going to fall under the more headache than it is worth catagory as well, though I could be wrong, she is fairly permissive in letting others get what they want as she let you mess with the template already.

I don't think it is fair for you to propose additions and changes to the rules and expect us not react to them. But, heck I don't really care, I am looking at this from a technical point of view.

 

[Ferrix]

I think the epic spell progression for the template is by itself too powerful. Thus I'm against it.

 

[Kelleris]

I don't think it is fair for you to propose additions and changes to the rules and expect us not react to them.

Aside from terminology quibbles (fiddling with a template and asking someone to check out some feats isn't changing the rules, per se), I really don't. I did post my thoughts on your comments, after all. I just wanted to make sure there were no personal feelings involved. "This particular thing is too powerful" is fine, I just wanted to make sure there weren't any "you are a total munchkin" or "your entire character is broken/silly/useless" vibes floating around.

You may be right about the spell-likes. As it stands, though, I'm hovering between +1 and +2 LA, and I'd like to get over to +2 if possible. That said, I don't think that the 10 extra spell-likes are worth more than a point of LA at this level. Adding another point would be too much, probably, and this seemed the natural way to even things out. If you have any other suggestions, please mention them. Constructive criticism is fine, but helping someone out is even better!

EDIT: I should mention; I expected a bit more time to ask these questions before Isida whipped up a roster, so I'm having trouble figuring out how to make this thing work without the stuff I normally have access to. Never hurts to ask, anyway!

 

[Isida Kep'Tukari]

Wrahn, I am indeed instituting the extra d8 hit points for each level of ECL. No BAB, feats, saves, does not count as Hit Dice.

First off, poisons. I'd really like to use them, but obviously there isn't a poison in the world (er, in the DMG) that will do anything at 30th level. Ergo, I'd like to know if I can use the system in Blue Devil Games's Poison book. Basically, I'll just a whip up a few poisons with suitably high save DCs using that system and then run them by you when I'm done.

Since I don't have that book, no. However, you may use Traps and Treachery's rules if you give me a full breakdown of your process.

Second, I have a possible spell-like progression through 40th level for the modified half-fey template. I used some epic spells, on the theory that you wouldn't mind just the spells as spell-likes, since there's no designing new ones and no rolling Spellcraft:

21-22  reverse gravity 3/day
23-24  summon behemoth
25-26  elemental swarm
27-28  verdigris at will
29-30  regenerate 3/day
31-32  epic repulsion (undead and constructs only)
33-34  shapechange 3/day
35-36  verdigris tsunami
37-38  enslave
39-40  eternal freedom

Looking at it, I like it, but it might be a bit much. So, howsabout I keep the Con penalty? Drop the wings and the +2 Wis, add this stuff. It seems like a lot, but the first 20 levels of spell-likes were only worth +1 LA themselves, so I dunno.

Far too powerful. Epic spells as spell-like abilities is a Very Bad Thing. Stick with the normal fey template. A Con penalty for epic spells is not a good trade-off. You can find creative ways to use your regular spell-like abilities, since you do get a boatload. LA races hurt at these high levels, so you either can just roll with it, or take a non-ECL race.

Thirdly, how do you feel about the Rogue variant that gives bonus fighter feats in place of SA dice (in Unearthed Arcana)? I'd like to use that for my Assassin levels, if possible. +4-5d6 SA just doesn't do much for me.

I am fine with that varient.

Fourth, there're some feats I'd like you to look at, all from Chainmail Bikini's Beyond Monks, some slightly modified.

I am only using feats and material from my previously-listed sources. So sorry. Go ahead with your duelist, and have fun with her.

I'll have you know I once built a 15th level fighter with a 42 AC. It was a legitimate build with a single prestige class (Bondblade) and magic items from the DMG. It's not impossible to get good AC at any level.

edit - I didn't want to sound harsh, but as Wrahn said, I am running over a dozen games and in almost as many. I only want to use material from books I have. I don't want to have to keep track of 20 varients and rules outside of my own material. We shall just boldly have to struggle on with the 74 books and magazines I already have on the list.

 

[Kelleris]

However, you may use Traps and Treachery's rules if you give me a full breakdown of your process.

Er, not so much, since I don't have that book. What I had in mind wouldn't really require you to have the book anyway, just to decide if the gp cost and craft DC it comes up with is okay. You can arbitrarily fiddle with either if you like. Otherwise I guess I'll just have to forget about it, since the ELH web enhancement ones aren't really worth the effort.

It's not a Con penalty for the half-fey stuff. It's a Con penalty, not getting a +2 Wis, and not getting good-rated flight at double my speed. Like I said, that's too weak for +2 LA, but probably too much still for +1. This seemed like the natural way to make up the difference, and the extras didn't seem like too much in the context of the other stuff.

Also, I was kinda expecting some haggling over the half-fey. Start high, y'know.

I never said it was impossible to get a good AC, I said it was proving difficult, which it is. Part of the problem is that the standard varies wildly depending on what I use to compare. I'd need a 70-72 (with fighting defensively, haste, and expertise, not base) to even feel like standing near the elephant for a round, for instance, but that's unhittable by the druid and not even a passing fancy for the druid's cohort.

However, I need to get into melee range to do anything useful. My spells just aren't going to cut the mustard at this level, even if they cut the spell resistance, which I doubt very much. My death attack DC also refuses to go above 35 or so, even with some other stuff that you won't let me use. It would apparently take a lot more flexibility to make this work than is feasible, so I'm going to have to nix this character. There's just no way I'll be able to contribute at a level I'm comfortable with.

I'll see if I can come up with something else, then. Otherwise, you have a pile of alternates to pick from. *ponders*

EDIT: No problem. In fairness, though, I either don't own or can't use most of those books (not getting a lot of mileage out of the MMIII, for one). And I tend to prefer out-of-the-way concepts, so I need a pretty wide selection to cover everything. Just the way it is, I guess. And the ELH doesn't help either; it goes out of its way to discourage anything other than the usual base classes, with some rare exceptions.

EDIT EDIT: The duelist question was not another character concept. It was an alternate way to get some more AC, via a cheesier and more powerful route than the feat I listed.

 

[Ferrix]

I understand your frustration to an extent Kelleris, with my paladin/anti-paladin duo I'm having a hell of a time thinking of any PrC that fits my character concept. One person suggested the cavalier, but I can only take so much mountedness before I get tired of it. Plus it really pidgeon-holes a character only be effective when he has his mount.

I want the dark and tormented good guy and the bitter and tormented bad guy, the lone warrior type thing (the ghostwalker prestige class almost fit this)

Maybe the paladin/anti-paladin thing ain't working so well.

Isida, might I try an alternate spin on it, rather than Good vs. Evil to Law vs. Chaos (monk one side, barbarian the other). Although that's asking a little more I think.

Maybe you'll end up with a psion afterall ;-) Oh yeah, if I go psion, can I use the Constructor PrC off of the Minds Eye? And if then, what about adding more levels of astral construct. At 30th level those 9th level constructs seem pretty paltry.

Argh... scatter-brained ferrix.

 

[Zack2216]

I was wondering if the sadism and/or masichism (specifically sasdism) could be converted to or researched as psionic powers? They would be telepath powers, because that's what I assume is the most correct, flavor wise. However, i'm not sure about augmentation, if there would be any at all, aside from being able to increase the spell's duration. As for a suggested spell level, it fits well along the line of 2nd level psychic warrior powers, such as strength of my enemy. Also, it would probably be best that it be a 3rd level psion/wilder power (however, that choice is up to you).

So, can I pretty-pretty-please have sadism?

edit: I was wondering, should I post my character here in this thread, or hold on till the rogue thread is up?