OOC - [Epic] Scions of the Endless Falls - Full

[Wrahn]

Then how about you calculate it as a permanent Magic Vestment effect? The idea of enhancing clothing makes me weep, as does permanent haste and hustle effects. Surely you can find some armor or effect in another source (like the sidebar in A&E about adding armor qualities to bracers of armor) that would also suit?

Just for reference, the Hustle effect is not permanent, it is a cast at will effect. Not that it makes a tremendous difference since it is a power that is automatically quickened.

So is it the combination of the two or would you prefer me not to have either?

I do not have Armor and Equipment. How much would Bracers of armor +1 with heavy fortification cost? Also how much would Bracers of Armor +8 of Heavy Fortification cost? (Heavy Fortification is a +5 effect)

 

[Ferrix]

I was just giving you the name of the item

That my friend is a perversion of the rules if I have ever seen it. For instance, Spell Resistance 19 if you bought your way would cost 70,000 + 55,650 = 125,650. If you bought it according to the rules as outlined in the DMG and the ELH it would cost 1,210,000 gold

Cost for the Ring of Freedom of Movement is wrong for a wonderous item (or alternatively just wrong) 7x4x2,000x1.5 (the 1.5 is for the duration)

I really don't know where you get your numbers Wrahn. Cost for the Ring of Freedom of Movement is set at 44,000gp in the DMG and there is no errata about it anywhere. Sometimes items (even ones specifically listed within the core books) don't turn out to be the same cost they would as the suggested guidelines. Thus I imagine the fine people at wizards have at least a basic idea of what is going on. Don't fix what's not broken.

Actually Ring of Freedom of Movement is 40,000gp... my bad.

Other examples of differences: Boots of Teleportation (list price 49,000gp; guideline price 54,000gp), Boots of Levitation (list price 7,500gp; guideline price 24,000gp), and so on.

 

[Ferrix]

DMG pg. 285; Table 7-33: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values

Spell Resistance 10,000gp per point over SR 12; SR 13 minimum.

Thus: SR 19 costs (19-12)x10000gp = 70,000gp
Where'd you get that number that stretched into the millions?

 

[Ferrix]

I do not have Armor and Equipment. How much would Bracers of armor +1 with heavy fortification cost? Also how much would Bracers of Armor +8 of Heavy Fortification cost? (Heavy Fortification is a +5 effect)

Bracers of Armor +8 of Heavy Fortification cost probably the same as Bracers of Epic Armor +13 (as heavy fort is a +5 effect) which would be a rough 1,690,000gp

 

[Kangaxx]

Ah, didn't see the book in there since they changed the name. I just bought 2 of them for simplicity's sake.

Pilmer has been updated and reposted, hopefully with finalized equipment.

Oneaboveall, I can't give much in the way of constructive ideas since I don't have a lot of the books you used to make the character, but I do have a few ideas/questions:

Your sword only being a +4 could be a problem for an epic melee character. A lot of epic monsters have DR X/epic. Perhaps you could pay to have it enchanted with a higher bonus, or get the 3.0 ELH version of penetrating attack which gave your weapons +2 enhancement for penetrating DR.

How did you get so many epic feats with only 22 hit dice?

In your gear section, you list 6 +6 books (which shouldn't exist) but you only have +5s on your stats. I assume this is because you changed them during character design, but forgot to alter the bonus and price in the listing at the bottom, so you should get about 140,000 gp back.

 

[Kangaxx]

The argument is that clothing is armor with no maximum dex mod and no armor bonus. This is supported by the Magic Vestment spell which allows an enhancement bonus to be placed on armor including clothing.

If the clothing counted as armor, then it would negate monk bonuses. I think that would defeat the purpose of getting it instead of armor for you.

Armor special abilities on bracers would be just as unfair as armor bonuses on clothing in my opinion. Part of the tradeoff of being a monk or arcane caster is losing access to those abilities, (a big part of the tradeoff of being a monk,) and putting those abilities on non-armor items removes those penalties, at no cost to the character.

 

[Wrahn]

I really don't know where you get your numbers Wrahn. Cost for the Ring of Freedom of Movement is set at 44,000gp in the DMG and there is no errata about it anywhere. Sometimes items (even ones specifically listed within the core books) don't turn out to be the same cost they would as the suggested guidelines. Thus I imagine the fine people at wizards have at least a basic idea of what is going on. Don't fix what's not broken.

Actually Ring of Freedom of Movement is 40,000gp... my bad.

Other examples of differences: Boots of Teleportation (list price 49,000gp; guideline price 54,000gp), Boots of Levitation (list price 7,500gp; guideline price 24,000gp), and so on.

Arbitrary changing of bonus is just that: arbitrary. There can be 100,000 reasons for it, perhaps they feel that a single item with freedom of movement should be cheaper, perhaps they feel that a ring should be cheaper.

The point is, unless we are the game master, we can not make the arbitrary judgements and are left with the guidelines.

Thus: SR 19 costs (19-12)x10000gp = 70,000gp
Where'd you get that number that stretched into the millions?

Spell Resistance 19 in the DMG is a +5 Bonus when applied to armor, bringing the total modifier over +10 making it epic and bringing the cost up to 1,210,000. In non-epic circumstances it would usually be cheaper than the wondrous items, but with the epic rules I think a certain amount of caution needs to be applied to the Non-Energy Resistance, Non-skill bonus to items.

And the rules simply don't support multiplying the armor as a secondary ability even if it is the cheaper cost. Looking at the costs you always multiply the additional abilities that cost money by 1.5 (So the cost for the armor, even if it is acceptable for adding a Sacred Bonus to saves to armor for a money cost as opposed to a bonus cost it should always be multiplied by 1.5 not the armor)

 

[Wrahn]

If the clothing counted as armor, then it would negate monk bonuses. I think that would defeat the purpose of getting it instead of armor for you.

Armor special abilities on bracers would be just as unfair as armor bonuses on clothing in my opinion. Part of the tradeoff of being a monk or arcane caster is losing access to those abilities, (a big part of the tradeoff of being a monk,) and putting those abilities on non-armor items removes those penalties, at no cost to the character.

Isida has made her ruling. So talking about this is completely irrelevant. However, from a simple rules perspective the using clothing as armor becomes increasingly murky and contradictory.

In truth I think it is just a silly argument. Find me a situation where it is unbalanced to apply the armor rules to clothing (just because they have an armor bonus does not make them armor, otherwise bracers of armor would be out too). There was a thread on this in the rules section, I'll see if I can dig it up.

Edit:

Here is the link: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105611

 

[perivas]

TheOneAboveAll, I don't believe that the enhancement bonuses from your epic rod of splendor and the headband stack.

I was wondering...does anyone know how much an item which increases one's spellcasting level and the DC's of spells cost? What if the increases are limited to one school of spells only? Thanks!

 

[Ferrix]

Cost to get an effective spell caster level increase is equal to the increase squared times 15,000gp. Thus +1 spellcaster level = 15000gp, +2 spellcaster level = 60000gp, +3 spellcaster level = 135000gp, etc.

DC increase I would say breaking down the arcanists amulet (+2 DC's for 50k) is probably either 25,000gp per +1 (linear) or bonus squared times 12500gp (exponential). Thus +1 DC = 12500gp, +2 DC = 50000gp, +3 DC = 112500gp, etc. I'd go with exponential probably as it's more balanced usually with the existing ways things increase.

For the increase to one school, the only close example I know of is the items from Expanded PsiHB which add +1 DC to those of a specific discipline. Which costs 8000gp. Probably cheaper just to go all around bonus unless you really want a high increase for a specific school.