[OOC] House Millithor in City of the Spider Queen II

[Seonaid]

Because "Fear is as strong as steel." The males fear the females. The commoners fear the nobles. The slaves fear everyone. The non-clerics fear the clerics. The clerics perhaps don't all fear Lolth, but fear is an integral part of the society and of the worship.

 

[Xael]

I think Quertus's idea (I think it was him) of taking over with force is a better plan, though it could get messy. Could we maybe subvert on of the Kiransalites? Turn them back to Lolth?

I think it was me. That is, if taking over by force means charming/dominating half of the enemies. I'm currently drooling over the possibility of sun rising so soon that the raiding group doesn't have time to get back (Endur?). Now there's a real situation to take out some vampires...

I doubt we can convert them. They would be useless weak-willed scum even if we could (changing goddess twice in rapid succession doesn't really give an image of loyalty...).

I don't know; I'm just babbling, I think. I do have a feeling that no one, Lolth included, cares who the males worship, as long as they don't try to overthrow the females and the current order (which seems to put Lolth on top).

Hehe. Quertus wouldn't mind that... But don't worry, as long as he's treated well, he's not going to slaughter you all.

 

[Pyrex]

It seems to me that there are two seperate (but related) issues:

1) How much "faith" is required to be a spellcasting cleric of a particular diety?

->While it is arguable that some dieties may grant spells even to those only granting lip-service to the tenets of the faith, it seems to me (even moreso at higher levels) that spells would only be granted to the truly "faithful".

2) When presented with the ultimatum "Convert or Die", how does any individual character react?

->Given that one of the defining traits of the CE alignment is absolute selfishness, I would expect that given no other choice the PC priestesses will most likely go with "Convert".

Even accepting both of the above as givens, there's still a lot of room for variance. The Matron sees attempting to control the Graverending as a potential source of immense personal power and is more willing to consider "Convert" if it'll help her get there.

Carcelon on the other hand, is tipping the balance slightly towards faith instead of personal power and so is investigating alternate avenues to avoid the ultimatum. (partly in hopes in gaining favor with the Queen if/when the silence ends). However, when given no other choice and issued the ultimatum, Carcelon will also choose "Convert".

 

[Seonaid]

They would be useless weak-willed scum even if we could (changing goddess twice in rapid succession doesn't really give an image of loyalty...).

Well, obviously we'd kill them after they served their purpose. I wouldn't want them around afterwards either. They would be most useful in getting close to those we couldn't subvert, or wouldn't dare try to subvert.

But don't worry, as long as he's treated well, he's not going to slaughter you all.

I'm soo reassured (she says dryly).

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

Because "Fear is as strong as steel." The males fear the females. The commoners fear the nobles. The slaves fear everyone. The non-clerics fear the clerics. The clerics perhaps don't all fear Lolth, but fear is an integral part of the society and of the worship.

I agree totally, the commons, the males, and the non-clerics should be running for the hills but we are talking about three female clerics of 10-12th level and that's true devotion not fear, IMO.

What the repercussion for drow civilization if the masses of Lolth’s clerics turn to other deities? Kiaransalee doesn't require female only clerics and equal in religion could mean equal in government/society. How much of the female drow power base is based upon religion? 50% of it? 75? 90? 100? (I honestly do not know)

Times like these usually make people cling to their values/religion... IMO.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

Darn it I thought my post got lost.

 

[Seonaid]

I should preface all of my comments with the following: all of this is my opinion; I have no knowledge of in-game mechanics or structures. My information comes solely from my imagination and from the Forgotten Realms novels I've read.

Kiaransalee doesn't require female only clerics and equal in religion could mean equal in government/society. How much of the female drow power base is based upon religion?

That's a good point. Obviously, drow have been worshipping other deities since time began, otherwise there wouldn't be other drow deities, but just as obviously, Lolth has been numero uno the entire time as well. From that perspective, Narcelia definitely would be against conversion, since it would basically mean the downfall of drow civilization. Then again, this is only true in the settings Narcelia and I know about--mainly Menzo, and some smaller outliers. It's possible that all of us PC's are wrong. In which case, Narcelia would convert if she was given hard, fast proof that 1) Lolth isn't coming back, at least not soon, and 2) Lolth isn't the Queen, but in fact is a minor dignitary's middle daughter, if you get the poor analogy.

I believe that the power base is 100% based upon religion, but a lot of that power currently is due to the fear ingrained in the populace, fear which will take a while to dissipate, but that dissipation will almost surely happen in the PC's lifetimes (well, the drow PC's anyway).

While it is arguable that some dieties may grant spells even to those only granting lip-service to the tenets of the faith, it seems to me (even moreso at higher levels) that spells would only be granted to the truly "faithful".

This is a compelling argument, true. I go back, though, to my previous argument that some gods don't care, as long as you forward their goals. I don't know anything of Kiransalee beyond what has been said in this setting, but I'm pretty sure that as long as you were faithful to Lolth's goals and did nothing to subvert her, she would give you personal power even if you weren't completely pure of heart. And, of course, strike you down in an instant if you showed any bit of hesitation about doing Lolth's bidding.

The Matron sees attempting to control the Graverending as a potential source of immense personal power and is more willing to consider "Convert" if it'll help her get there.

Carcelon on the other hand, is tipping the balance slightly towards faith instead of personal power and so is investigating alternate avenues to avoid the ultimatum. (partly in hopes in gaining favor with the Queen if/when the silence ends). However, when given no other choice and issued the ultimatum, Carcelon will also choose "Convert".

Narcelia has the same ideas as Carcelon, and would love act as Lolth's personal Scourge when the Silence ends. However, that argument also supports the Matron's: if she (the Matron) converts, and if this Silence lasts for much longer, perhaps Kiransalee with personally have the power to dominate in the pantheon, and if the Matron converts now instead of later, she will have more power over others, in what will be--inevitably, in this scenario--the ruling religion. Of course, that begs the question of what Ki'Willis will do if we run into another group of clerics who seem/are more powerful than Kiransalee's.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

As I said earlier, I'm glad I'm playing a simple bugbear...

Though the thought of being more active in the major is appealing. Anyhow I had a long night, I'm going to bed.

 

[Seonaid]

Muscle need not think. It's good to be a simple bugbear.

 

[Xael]

As I said earlier, I'm glad I'm playing a simple bugbear...

I've found out that I get bored with non-spellcaster (=non-wizard) characters much easier than if I play spellcaster -type characters. Especially if playing a bit higher level (7+) game. Strange actually...

Though the thought of being more active in the major is appealing.

Quertus will probably have some use for Kilchif. Soon...