OOC : Shopping for magic items in...

[weldon]

Atmosphere is important. I don't want to discount that. I suppose there should still be a discussion about what the atmosphere should feel like in a living world setting just so DM's aren't wildly different in how they describe things.

Still, I don't think we need a mechanic that only serves to prevent PC's from getting magic items. Can the atmosphere be appropriately handled in the narrative fluff provided by the DM? Does it need a specific mechanic?

 

[JoeNotCharles]

Well, I want to reiterate that I'm just proposing a guideline: DM's are free to handle in-game item shopping however they want. I'm just saying that if your players suddenly say, "Before we go after the bad guys lets stop and load up," and you haven't thought about how to respond to it, here's a suggestion for a system you can use.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Well, I like that guideline, as far as it goes.

It doesn't only reflect how hard it is to track down someone who can do what you want but how hard it is to get him to do it right now.

If we are to accept that such things are common, then you have to learn to wait in line. Most specialists work on appointment and I have sometime been incapable to get a damn hair cut without appointment despite checking the 5 hairderesser in my area in one afternoon... Surely enchanters also have a busy schedules.

For my taste 'Do it between adventures' will remain my favorite answer but if L4W gets a unified response to this dilemna, a mechanic such as the one proposed by Joe seems fine.

It should be fairly difficult to get someone to enchant you a sword at a moment's notice. Something along the line of 'I know a guy who owes me a favor, he'll move a few appointments for me' which is represented by a high streetwise check.

Consummables are more likely to be stocked so that explains why a DC for a potion of the same level as a magic item should be lower.

 

[Dunamin]

I don't know about putting down mechanics, but limiting trade to between adventures is going too far. I've been playing since L4W began more than a year ago and have yet to finish an adventure; by such a ruling I would be unable to purchase an interesting item should I actually manage to save up enough valuables (which also has yet to happen).

If there're no time constraints at a given point in an adventure, I feel PCs should be free to waste their hard-earned gold on items at Daunton's market. If there are time constraints, I'd also prefer guidelines for DMs rather than strict ruling.

How about, as a guide, that a heroic tier item be acquired within the framework of an extended rest? Six hours to cover investigation, getting connected with a ritual caster, negotiating, and waiting for enchantment - total costs for tips, services, and components comes up the listed market price?

 

[covaithe]

DM's are free to handle in-game item shopping however they want.

Yes.

I think it's going to be hard to escape the idea that this is a fairly high-magic world. Whether we like it or not, we've got +2 weapons popping up already (Alex has one). In a year, it might be +4 weapons. Who makes those?

LEW had as a guideline the idea that there were few to no high level NPCs in the world; that the PCs should be the movers and shakers and big shots. That worked okay, as far as it went, but it had a fairly profound effect on a lot of things, and I think in the end it got pretty uncomfortably stretched and implausible, as PCs got higher in level.

I think it would be better to assume a plethora of NPC classes, and that NPCs can be fairly high level in those classes. I wouldn't bat an eye at the idea of a veteran blacksmith with a reputation for making magic weapons, be considered a 15th level artisan, or whatever. Useless in combat, but he can make swords pretty well.

Personally, I think there's good, established in-character reasons for Daunton being pretty well supplied with heroic tier items, and probably paragon stuff as well, though it may be harder to find. After all, Daunton was the headquarters of The Five for many years, who we've carefully avoided specifying an exact level for, but were probably at least mid to high paragon. Surely they would have attracted some skilled craftsmen to the area to meet their needs. Since their disappearance, Mayor Brunt has actively encouraged lesser adventurers in the city; surely his encouragement would have extended to purveyors of magic items, as well.

 

[ScorpiusRisk]

We could always implement Magewrights, from Eberron, as part of the middle class. I could see a city of Daunton's size, and trade value, hosting 5-20 of these individuals. No need to worry about powerful PC's intervening, as they are basically craftsmen.

Besides a number of heroic adventurers to support their trade, a city of this size would make good use of Make Whole, and simple magic items, such as everburning torches, and bags of holding. At least in the upper class.

 

[elecgraystone]

I see things like ScorpiusRisk, Dunamin and covaithe. The setting supports a set of merchants that sell enchantments and rituals for a living. Once you know where they are, it shouldn't be much of an issue to go to them and get something.

And I really don't see waiting much of an issue since the merchant would keep that to a minimum. They have a contract for everburning torches? That's why you have apprentices! Even if you are doing something at the time, it pays them to stop it and take care of a customer unless it's another customer. Even in that case though, it's only an hour and how likely is a line going to be? Magic is expensive enough that it isn't an everyday buy.

Now if the GM has a reason
[*] they don't want you to get an item in the middle of an adventure, that's up to them. I see that as the exception though with the default being easy and fast enchanting.





[*] If the reason is 'Atmosphere' that could be an issue. To use that, there has to be an 'Atmosphere' everyone agrees on and that isn't the case here. To JoeNotCharles, this isn't really something we can agree to disagree on. The 'Atmosphere' should not radically change between GM's. If one GM has 20 enchanters side by side in 'enchanters row' it's hard to believe it when you tell me I can't find an enchanter or they are all busy.

I don't see an enchant any differently from lunch. Someone is buying and someone is selling. If your service is bad [long waits/closed] they go to the next restaurant/enchanter and no one wants to lose a customer. Daunton's big enough and the world is magical enough to support people who's job it is to make items.

The only difference between lunch and an enchant is the amount of gp spent. In modern times I could point to a candy bar and a car. Once I know where the convenience store and the car dealership is, I can go buy either without a problem.

 

[renau1g]

Except if you go to a car dealership, most of the time you are going to be waiting to get the exact car you want with all the speicifications and optons you're looking for. Same for the magic provider, he needs time to make your +2 LIfedrinker mace, or your Periapt of Health or your Cloak of the Arachnida. The carrying costs of those items is very high.

 

[elecgraystone]

Same for the magic provider, he needs time to make your +2 LIfedrinker mace, or your Periapt of Health or your Cloak of the Arachnida.

Yep, he needs exactly 1 hour. A GM not giving me enough time in an adventure to get something enchanted is different that him saying that they are all busy or unavailable.

The carrying costs of those items is very high.

The higher the cost of the end product, the higher the start up and maintenance costs are. I don't see that as an issue. Again, the priests don't seem to have any issues coming up with the materials for raise dead rituals. Components are components.

Again, I'm assuming NPC enchanters work just like any other merchant/crafter. They pay 1/5th the end cost in materials and the rest is profit. That huge profit margin [80%] is more than enough to keep them in business and to have materials at hand.

 

[Oni]

Without having read all the replies, my gut reaction is that it's something that should just be left to the DM to decide if something is currently available at a given point in time, based on the needs of their adventure. If the players really want something that a given DM has made unavailable for some reason it's not like they won't be able to get it eventually when the adventure ends. Even if Daunton is awash in magic items that doesn't necessarily mean that you can find what you want at a given time for any number of reason (master ritualist is unavailable, bacarte pirates hijacked the last shipment, out of stock, we don't make those, there's a waiting list, et c.) and that's really the only justification a DM needs. I assume that DM's would make thing unavailable for a reason, rather than just being contrary.