OotS 414

[Voadam]

It's also simply a feudal society, and the feudal contract is a very simple "Guys without swords obey guys with swords. In return guys with swords protect them from other guys with swords." To flee the city, and take ones troops with one, is evil, chaotic, and cowardly. Frankly their own troops should desert them since they have proven themselves to be utterly without merit or honor.

Wait the "protect them" in the feudal contract is the people without swords who are being evacuated not the city itself which will have no people without swords after the evacuation, right?

 

[Quasqueton]

They have a leader who is intent on plunging them into a war that, by what he has said, could be ended by handing over the McGuffin that said leader adamantly refuses to say anything about.

Actually, the war has been brought to their gates -- Hinjo is not "plunging them into" it. Hell, Hinjo didn't know about it till a few hours ago (maybe a day ago).

And Xykon has not asked for the McGuffin. He has not communicated with the city at all. It's only Roy's theory that Xykon only wants the gate -- Xykon actually wants to conquer the world. Giving Xykon the gate won't stop him, or turn him away from Azure City. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html

Quasqueton

 

[Kahuna Burger]

It's D&D Japan which means movie style utter obedience of ones master or death. It's also simply a feudal society, and the feudal contract is a very simple "Guys without swords obey guys with swords. In return guys with swords protect them from other guys with swords." To flee the city, and take ones troops with one, is evil, chaotic, and cowardly. Frankly their own troops should desert them since they have proven themselves to be utterly without merit or honor.

Yet more facts not in evidence. It's not Japan, a point made early on when Roy asked Miko about going by her first or last name. It's not necassarily a simple feudal society unless we are told that. And refusing to sacrifice yourself for someone who won't even tell you what you're fighting for (and its clearly not the city or it's people) is neither evil, nor chaotic, nor cowardly. Its something we can dislike them for, since it makes life harder on the PCs, but there's no need to try to paint them as demons for it.

(technicly, we have no idea what the 'honorable' order of priorities is for the lords. They may have a duty to their families before the city, or even to not sacrifice their samuri in avoidable conflicts. In either of those cases, leaving rather than dying for an unamed macguffin* would be the lawful and honorable thing to do.)

*and they have no idea what the thing he wants is. Hinjo says giving it to him isn't an option, but Hinjo is a paladin who as we all know will follow an oath over the more sensible path. The army could want the body of Soon which the paladins have a sacred oath to keep from being desecrated for all the nobles know. He didn't even bother to tell them that what the lich wanted was imovable.

 

[Falkus]

Actually, the war has been brought to their gates -- Hinjo is not "plunging them into" it. Hell, Hinjo didn't know about it till a few hours ago (maybe a day ago).

And Xykon has not asked for the McGuffin. He has not communicated with the city at all. It's only Roy's theory that Xykon only wants the gate -- Xykon actually wants to conquer the world. Giving Xykon the gate won't stop him, or turn him away from Azure City.

My POINT is that from their perspective, not the third person omniscient perspective, Hinjo is refusing to consider any other possible method of resolving this crisis.

 

[DM_Matt]

never mind

 

[Quasqueton]

Hinjo is refusing to consider any other possible method of resolving this crisis.

That's just the nobles' straw man. They've only offered one possible method of resolving this crisis, and it was to diplomacize with "an inhuman soulless corpse animated by pure evil, who cares for nothing but your complete and total destruction."

Quasqueton

 

[Kahuna Burger]

That's just the nobles' straw man. They've only offered one possible method of resolving this crisis, and it was to diplomacize with "an inhuman soulless corpse animated by pure evil, who cares for nothing but your complete and total destruction."

Quasqueton

An "assessment" made by a fighter with a family blood oath against him. Who just before that said that he didn't actually care about the city just the Macguffin. So he's both unqualified and inconsistent. I'd listen.

 

[Delta]

Humm... City defenses taken out by a Scoundrel?

Damn, and I tried really hard to thing of everything, too... too much to keep track of!

 

[Quasqueton]

So he's both unqualified and inconsistent. I'd listen.

And they did listen -- they used his statements as an excuse to bail out on Azure City.

Hey, come on, face it. The Azure City nobles are s.

Quasqueton

 

[kigmatzomat]

Actually, negotiation shouldn't be a real consideration. Has no one else heard the story of the danegeld? Once you begin to pay for protection, you can never stop paying for protection. Do some reading. There is good historical justification for not negotiating with terrorists. Once you begin to pay for protection, you can never stop paying for protection.

Besides, if a lich comes knocking at your door with an army of goblins large enough to overwhelm your city completely unannounced, is he really likely to negotiate in good faith?

Were I Hinjo I'd tell the nobles their vassals (aka the peasantry) can leave but until every last noncombatant has found a berth, not one sword-weilding samurai or trooper will leave the city except as an arrow-laden pin cushion of a corpse. Those soldiers are to protect the populace and they will protect the populace with their lives as a rear guard. Should it be the rear guard is more of a corpse wall then so be it.