OotS 448

[kinem]

Reynard: It is just you.

Following the D&D rules makes OOTS more interesting (to D&D players) than just another comic strip.

Besides, since when is analysis and mechanics not fun?

 

[DogBackward]

We don't really know the ability point generation used with the PCs & NPCs (but it must be quite generous, since Roy is strong, smart, charismatic and tough). Assuming even a ungenerous starting charisma of 15, +3 points from levels, +4 from a Cloak of Charisma, and +2 from a Tome of Influence and Leadership (all values that do not indicate a truly maxed NPC), he has a total charisma score of 24, meaning all saving throw DCs are at 25. Only a 35 % chance to make it.
If he is really a epic level NPC (20 level Sorceror + Lich Template), he would probably have a Cloak of Charisma +6, 5 Ability Points and a Tome of Leadership +4, boosting the DC by another 3 points to 28 (meaning a 20 % chance of a successful saving throw)

+2 from the Lich template (which all but one of you (forget who) seem to keep forgetting) makes for a 30 score, for +1 DC. True, it's not a huge deal, but it still helps.

 

[blargney the second]

That was a great one... Xykon oozes style.

Which is better than him being a gelatinous barber and styling ooze.
-blarg

 

[Klaus]

All the preperation in the world wouldn't have helped the Sapphire Guard if they never had high enough spell casters to create the really good defences. And they clearly lacked it, as the best they can do in casting is Teleport (only one Wizard who can do it) or Resurrection.


But really vaguely. I mean, a 8th level spell is only very very vaguely a cantrip.

So you're saying that in its entire history the Sapphire Guard never had any high-level cleric or wizard, nor hired any one of those to permamently protect their sole reason of being?

As for knowing Xykon was coming, you don't honestly think they holed up in there and resorted to listening to know if the enemy was approaching? Even without facotring in magic, a simple sentry at the window would be able to see the entire battle and the skeleton flying at them.

Is it just me -- a relative newcomer to the strip, and thus threads regarding it -- or does nothing suck the fun out of the comic like over-analyzed mechanical explanations for stuff that happens in-panel? i mean, i realize that the whole point is that it runs by the rules, but isn't it enough to say, "hey, he cast symbol of insanity on those paladins and they all failed their saves. GUFAW!"?

I'm not terribly concerned with the mechanics of the scene, as much as the fact that the scene didn't take into account the frame of reference set up by the strip itself, i.e, this battle was supposed to be the climax of the Sapphire Guard's existence. If you don't show the Guard to be prepared, the suspension of disbelief is strained.

Plus, the fact that I came up with a better script for this episode in, like, 2 minutes shows that it's not terribly hard to be done.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Is it just me -- a relative newcomer to the strip, and thus threads regarding it -- or does nothing suck the fun out of the comic like over-analyzed mechanical explanations for stuff that happens in-panel? i mean, i realize that the whole point is that it runs by the rules, but isn't it enough to say, "hey, he cast symbol of insanity on those paladins and they all failed their saves. GUFAW!"?

Is it just me or does nothing suck the fun out of a thread on a D&D board that's entire point is to discuss the comic like someone complaining about discussing the comic from a D&D perspective? Seriously if you just want to see "best strip ever!" 10 times for every single strip the giant posts, he has a messageboard for that. I'll take the small enjoyment I can make for myself out of a bad showing by having fun with the mechanics of why it was a bad showing. (the dramatics of why it was a bad showing are not as fun and not as suited to this board).

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Plus, the fact that I came up with a better script for this episode in, like, 2 minutes shows that it's not terribly hard to be done.

Yeah, I liked your strip better. Xycon's stylish sillyness was not the answer, but pure power and reckless violence could have been. (oh yeah, and they never discussed a last ditch destruction of the saphire before that very moment? triple lame...)

 

[Piratecat]

That was a great one... Xykon oozes style.

Which is better than him being a gelatinous barber and styling ooze.
-blarg

I approve of your message, and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[JustinA]

No one is asking that. But if you write yourself into a scene that *has* to be handwaived, you might as well not have written the scene at all. Write a scene that doesn't *have* to be handwaived. If this scene is the purpose of the Sapphire Guard, they'd have to be extremely well-prepared, with stuff like Prayer (+1 luck to saves), Magic Circle Against Evil (+2 resistance bonus to saves), Eagle's Splendor (+2 bonus to saves through Divine Grace)...

And nothing makes for riveting drama like several panels of exposition to establish exactly what magical preparations were made in this room... right?

The last panel in strip 447 tells us all this: The Sapphire Guard was prepared for Xykon. It was told to us visually in a single panel. We don't need the complete breakdown.

If Xykon has Cha 20, the save DC for the Symbol is 23.

Sure, if Xykon is a frickin' wimp. My 10th level sorcerer has a Charisma of 20. I'm betting the high-level lich is a little bit better off.

A 6th-level Paladin with Wis 12 and Cha 14 and the above effects will have a Will save of +10.

If the DC is set at a reasonable 28, your paladins only succeed on their saving throw 10% of the time. There are a total of 37 characters shown in the final panel of strip 447 (some of whom are spellcasters). That would indicate 4 characters would make their saves on average.

In strip 448 a total of 5 characters are shown as having made their saving throw. Conclusion? Rich got it right.

Of the 25 that fail their saves, 4 attack the caster anyway (as Act Normal and Attack the Caster), 6 attack the nearest creature (who in turn attack back, taking 12 Paladins out of the battle) and the rest babble about.

Of the 32 we know failed their saves: 10% attack the caster (or move closer). 10% act normally. 30% babble. 20% flee. 30% attack the nearest creature.

(Brief segue: Now we get into an adjudication issue. Does the "attack the caster" in the case of a symbol of insanity mean "attack the guy who cast the spell" or does it mean "attack the symbol"? In the case of this scenario Xykon is available, but that obviously wouldn't be the case in the typical scenario where a symbol of insanity is encountered.)

So: 3 people attack the caster. 3 people act normally. 9 people babble. 6 people flee. 9 people attack the nearest creature.

We don't see the whole room, but we do see some people acting normally (some of whom may have made their saves, but some of whom may simply have that reaction this turn). We do see some people trying to attack Xykon. We don't see anyone babbling, per se, but we probably don't really need extra word balloons.

What we do know is that the violence will quickly propagate through the room: Anyone under the effects of the spell who is attacked will automatically return the attack on the following round (ignoring the normal roll to see what they do). So once you've attacked, you'll likely be attacked -- which will lock the two of you in a perpetual attack sequence. And anyone who wasn't already locked in an attack sequence has a 30% chance each round of initiating one themselves (and a smaller, but significant chance, of being targeted by one and being pulled into an attack sequence that way).

In a large crowd like that, I would expect the entire room to be killing each other within 2-3 rounds (12-18 seconds).

Conclusion: Rich got it right again.

Rich did awesome strips for a while, but this one was very badly written.

If by "badly written" we mean "got the rules wrong" and if by "got the rules wrong" we mean "got the rules right"... yeah, that was badly written.

 

[hong]

Factor in Prayer, Protection from Evil and a potion of Eagle's Splendor and you're boosting that Will save from +9 to +12. Against a DC 22, it's a 50/50 chance.

A 20th level lich without at _least_ a DC 30 save on an 8th level spell simply isn't trying.

 

[Korgoth]

Is it just me -- a relative newcomer to the strip, and thus threads regarding it -- or does nothing suck the fun out of the comic like over-analyzed mechanical explanations for stuff that happens in-panel? i mean, i realize that the whole point is that it runs by the rules, but isn't it enough to say, "hey, he cast symbol of insanity on those paladins and they all failed their saves. GUFAW!"?

It's sort of inevitable since Rich has Xykon say "Symbol of Insanity" instead of "Xykon's Bouncy Ball of Insanity".

Anyway, I just thought it was lame and didn't crack a smile. For something we've been building up to so magnificently, I found it to be a real let-down. I see it as Rich fumbling the ball on the 1 yard line.