OotS #657 is up
V got caught in the exact same situation she was in Azure city. Invisible, able to escape and feeling unable to do anything to save someone. This time around she decided to stick around. This is definitely a good act and a good start at redemption, though familicide will take a lot of good deeds and some actual remorse to be forgiven by the alignment review panel in arborea or wherever elf wizards end.
Wolv0rine
First Post
Yes, but it was a monologue of Pure, Epic friggin' Awesome.
Remus Lupin
Adventurer
Hmm... don't the lower-plane creatures need to save V since they own V's body for a term?
I keep asking: Why does anybody think this? I went back and read the old strips and it's not at all clear to me that this was implied in the pact. In fact, there is at least some evidence that it is explicitly NOT implied in the pact.
Granted, the infernals will screw V over somehow, but I think people have been reading much too much into it to arrive at the idea that they somehow have a claim on his body at all, nevermind prior to death.
It's not so much that they will claim his body, in fact their contract explicitly specified it would be her/his soul. However nowhere did it say that they could only claim her soul after she died. Claiming her soul beforehand should be akin to possession and thus, it would give them control of her body if she is still alive. If she was to die they would only get to torture her for a while.
Remus Lupin
Adventurer
Yeah, see I understand that logic, but I don't think it plays. "claiming V's soul" does not equal "possession." That WOULD be "claiming his body." When possesssed by a demon, what's possessed is the body, not the soul. The soul is displaced.
Now, I could see an argument that V's will would be subject to the infernals, but even then, that doesn't seem to be what's being implied in the deal. Nothing in it suggests anything other than, after V's death, he becomes the spiritual indentured servant of each of the infernals for a limited period of time.
Granted, this is what V also expects, which means that he's likely to get screwed over in some totally unexpected way. I'm sure I'll be as surprised as anyone when the twist of the knife comes.
Now, I could see an argument that V's will would be subject to the infernals, but even then, that doesn't seem to be what's being implied in the deal. Nothing in it suggests anything other than, after V's death, he becomes the spiritual indentured servant of each of the infernals for a limited period of time.
Granted, this is what V also expects, which means that he's likely to get screwed over in some totally unexpected way. I'm sure I'll be as surprised as anyone when the twist of the knife comes.
I think I get your point. It really ends up as a debate on what control a soul has over the body. By claiming V's soul I think we can safely assume that this means they can control her soul but how does that affect the whole? In D&D or at least in the version of the rules that affect OotSverse does the soul control the body?
I think magic jar would be evidence in favor of that. By displacing the soul from a body and replacing it with your own, you gain control of its actions. Would being able to compel a soul's actions not give you sovereignty over the body then?
DreadPirateMurphy
Explorer
The contract clearly gives the 3 evils something. They come right out in #656 and say, "If the elf dies here, this whole thing was a huge waste of time."
Since these evil guys are clearly the same 3 evil guys from #380, whom Sabine talked to right after learning about the Snarl and the gates, and they tell her she'll get a finder's fee, it has to have something to do with the gates.
They ALSO say in #656 that, "We can only act directly on the mortal plane when we're making a deal." Since this is a conversation with a henchman in a lair, that is probably the truth.
In #633, when they cut the deal, they said that each of them gets V's soul for a period of time equal to the splice. That part probably has to be true due to the nature of infernal pacts.
What WASN'T specified was, what does it mean to "get" somebody's soul? It's clearly a return loaner, so they can't use it as infernal currency, eat it, or do whatever else the traditional evil outsider does with souls. I really don't buy the proof-of-concept concept, based on later dialog. It also makes no sense that they went through all this just to torment V's soul for a few hours. Evil doesn't equal petty.
Probably, what will happen is V becomes a servant of the three, RIGHT when they're near a gate. The 3 would want a gate for the same reason that Redcloak wants access -- it is the ultimate bargaining chip with the gods of all of the pantheons. A sudden and unexpected turn of alliance might give them control, at least for long enough to shift the balance of power (and maybe get out of their non-compete agreement).
Since these evil guys are clearly the same 3 evil guys from #380, whom Sabine talked to right after learning about the Snarl and the gates, and they tell her she'll get a finder's fee, it has to have something to do with the gates.
They ALSO say in #656 that, "We can only act directly on the mortal plane when we're making a deal." Since this is a conversation with a henchman in a lair, that is probably the truth.
In #633, when they cut the deal, they said that each of them gets V's soul for a period of time equal to the splice. That part probably has to be true due to the nature of infernal pacts.
What WASN'T specified was, what does it mean to "get" somebody's soul? It's clearly a return loaner, so they can't use it as infernal currency, eat it, or do whatever else the traditional evil outsider does with souls. I really don't buy the proof-of-concept concept, based on later dialog. It also makes no sense that they went through all this just to torment V's soul for a few hours. Evil doesn't equal petty.
Probably, what will happen is V becomes a servant of the three, RIGHT when they're near a gate. The 3 would want a gate for the same reason that Redcloak wants access -- it is the ultimate bargaining chip with the gods of all of the pantheons. A sudden and unexpected turn of alliance might give them control, at least for long enough to shift the balance of power (and maybe get out of their non-compete agreement).
wingsandsword
Legend
Agreed, this looks like it was V's one real chance at redemption.
Now, will V live to follow it through, or will it be his/her one thing to say that he/she didn't fall all the way to an Evil alignment (sacrificed himself/herself to save a Paladin from a fate worse than death when s/he could have run away)?
