Opinion: PoL and high tiers do not fit in the long run

[xechnao]

PoL and paragon or epic tiers do not fit in the long run.

PoL as an idea is very fitting for a low or dark fantasy gritty setting. In such a setting people fight to expand against the darkness and PCs or adventurers are the front-line soldiers of the war. But in such a setting leveling to super-power levels does not make any sense. If people were to be able to become so powerful PoL would simply not remain PoL anymore. Simply, if d&d characters can rise and match gods who are the shapers and rulers of the PoL world reconquering the world is just a matter of time.

In pre 4e d&d heroes became legends in a world of good, evil and neutrality. Legendary powers made sense because they could sustain the balanced foundation of the world. It is true though that alignment was boring and it did not make much sense in respect to reality. But it could explain the on-going exsistance of powering levels in a system of conflict.


So I guess in 4e each campaign will have to reset to a point somehow. I think we will have to miss PCs' legacy building from one campaign to the next as points that remained.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Well PoL as far as I can tell, simply relates to the Material World. So when you begin to enter Paragon and Epic levels you won't be dealing with a necessarily PoL-World. You will be dealing with things in the Abyss, Far Realm, Sigil, Astral Sea, Elemental Chas, Feywild, Shadowfell, etc.

Also who is not to say, that even with you being at Epic-levels the threats you have are so powerful, it still blankets the world in darkness. Hell, you could be potentially going after ancient-evils that brought about PoL.

 

[WyzardWhately]

It makes perfect sense. People hitting epic levels is why empires rise - and the lack of people to replace them are why they fall. The story of the rise and fall of a hundred empires is the saga of the great warriors, magicians, and scoundrels of the world writ large. Those who fight against the darkness with epic strength drive it back - for a time. PCs can hit epic, yes, but that doesn't mean it's very common. Just my thoughts.

 

[xechnao]

Hell, you could be potentially going after ancient-evils that brought about PoL.

My point is that this does not make sense. Time along, surge after surge of rising epic heroes these ancient-evils will eventually fall and PoL will be no more.

 

[xechnao]

It makes perfect sense. People hitting epic levels is why empires rise - and the lack of people to replace them are why they fall. The story of the rise and fall of a hundred empires is the saga of the great warriors, magicians, and scoundrels of the world writ large. Those who fight against the darkness with epic strength drive it back - for a time. PCs can hit epic, yes, but that doesn't mean it's very common. Just my thoughts.

So humanity does not make any progress? Humanity is not developing or expanding?

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Well then perhaps a end does come to your PCs, perhaps there is simply a darkness they cannot beat.

Or perhaps they are the first to reach such levels of might (could very well be where Wizards is taking it, given their emphasis on the PCs being unique).

I personally plan on having it be that the darkness and evil of the world is so ingrained and wove into the World that it simply is part of the World, that no hero no matter how mighty can wipe clean.

 

[PeterWeller]

So humanity does not make any progress? Humanity is not developing or expanding?

Only until our next dark age.

 

[DandD]

My point is that this does not make sense. Time along, surge after surge of rising epic heroes these ancient-evils will eventually fall and PoL will be no more.

The problem is, in your own homebrew, which the Point of Light-game concept takes place, your heroes are the only heroes. That's why it's a game campaign concept, not a setting. We all expect that in your campaign, the player characters are the main protagonists, not the NPCs. Stabby McStab, the low-level Fighter played by Frank, will arise to become the legendary hero who will save his world together with Elfy O'Elf, played by his cousin Joe, and Dwarfy Dwarfstein, played by some other guy at the gaming table. Perhaps there'll be also Slutty Sorcerer-girl, and Knifey Knifemeister, the best knifeing rogue who ever is. Those are the heroes. They count. Nobody else does.

 

[xechnao]

Only until our next dark age.

Perhaps. But still PoL is unfitting for extended campaign use in d&d.

 

[xechnao]

The problem is, in your own homebrew, which the Point of Light-game concept takes place, your heroes are the only heroes. That's why it's a game campaign concept, not a setting. We all expect that in your campaign, the player characters are the main protagonists, not the NPCs. Stabby McStab, the low-level Fighter played by Frank, will arise to become the legendary hero who will save his world together with Elfy O'Elf, played by his cousin Joe, and Dwarfy Dwarfstein, played by some other guy at the gaming table. Perhaps there'll be also Slutty Sorcerer-girl, and Knifey Knifemeister, the best knifeing rogue who ever is. Those are the heroes. They count. Nobody else does.

So I guess each campaign will have to be a one-shot campaign. When it ends we re-create these protagonists and just replay.