opinions of "Asterids parlor"

[FriarRosing]

[tangent]
So are they going to start specific sub-forums for every supposed non-majority gamer group? If the "average" gamer is a straight white male between the ages of 24 and 35, are they going to make a forum for sub-24 gamers? One for gay gamers? One for non-white gamers (which would bring up various sub-sub forums like arabic gamers, black gamers, hispanic gamers, etc)? One for post-34 gamers? One for left-handed albino eskimo lesbian gamers? Will they eventually rename the General forum at such a place "Straight White Males Between 24 and 35 Gaming Forum"? No, because then there'd be an uproar.


-TRRW

Remember, though, that while women gamers maybe non majority, half of the population of the world is comprised of women. So, really, it's not at all similar at all to making up a forum for left-handed albino lactose intolerant gamers. There are a ton of women in the world, and Wizards wants a ton of those women to play their games. The point of the forum isn't to have a place to separate women from men. The point is to have a place where people feel comfortable talking about things they wouldn't otherwise bring up.

 

[Dire Bare]

[tangent]As a counter point, why is there an all female gym chain (Curves) and yet, if a man (or group of men) were to make a similar all male gym chain it'd be boycotted in a second by all manner of upset people who want to be included? Maybe *I* want an easy, 30 minute workout in a non-threatening environment where I'm not looked upon as a piece of meat.[/tangent]

Dude, you just don't get it. The reason why Curves exists is very similar to the reason why the Astrid's Parlor forum exists. No, there isn't a male version of the gym Curves and there isn't a male version of the Astrid's Parlor forum, and the reason why you and so many other guys don't get that is the reason why they exist. If some entrepeneur started up an all male gym I wouldn't be offended (although, you're right, many people would, and for the wrong reasons), but I would be completely uninterested and would not see the need. I do see the need for Curves for my female friends. Not all of them would be interested in a Curves membership, but many of them would be. Same with the Astrid's Parlor forum.

Point is, the only problem with Astrid's Parlor is that it looks to me like a tree house club with a big "NO BOYS ALLOWED" sign outside. It seems immature.

No, just shows you didn't bother to research what Astrid's Parlor truly is (which again, proves the need). As other posters have already stated, the forum is not "No Boys Allowed" but is a place intended for women AND men to discuss women's issues in gaming. And if you don't think there aren't women issues in gaming, you're just plain being ignorant.

So are they going to start specific sub-forums for every supposed non-majority gamer group?

Now you are just being ridiculous and purposely inflammatory. Once again, you prove the need for this forum.

 

[Dire Bare]

The forum is supposed to be about talking about things that bother female gamers it is supposed to be a place that a female or male gamer who wants to help make a female gamer feel more comfortable can come and post for advice.

It fails to provide any of this. Why well afer being a member of the forum several months I just gave up. Because you have a bunch of guys several who are very vocal about their dislike of the forum and there dislike of what they call femnazis that turn almost ever frakking thread into an arguemnt about the pros and cons of feminism.

Yes, I noticed that when I checkout the forum out a while back, and it's sad. There is a need for this kind of forum, and a desire amongst a subset of female gamers for this kind of forum, and WotC recognized this need and tried to provide.

And then the obnoxious basement-dwelling troglodytes of the male gamer community swooped in to pee in everybody's cereal, nearly ruining the experience. Pisses me off, actually.

It'd be kinda against the point, but WotC should consider restricting the forum to females only. Not sure if that's easily achievable (technically) and not really truly desirable, but would it salvage at least a part of the forum's purpose? I don't know, I'm just a guy.

Ah well, social progess is never a quick and easy process, it takes time to change attitudes.

 

[Dire Bare]

I'm black, a Roman Catholic, a metalhead & a gamer who lives in Texas- I'm never in the majority.

IME, a safe harbor can be quite comforting to those within it, and it can provide an environment to discuss what would otherwise never be.

However, it doesn't lead to deeper understanding between those within and without, and at worst, can actually lead to alienation. One of the reasons I didn't attend a HBCU (Historically Black College or University) when I had the option- for free!- was that many of them have become so insular that larger and larger portions of the graduates are preaching the virtues of self-segregation as a cure for social ills like racism.

I respect what you're saying, but disagree somewhat.

If you start a group with the purpose of promoting an agenda limited by gender, race, religion or some other social group, it is not a given that the group will lead to what you claim . . . lack of understanding and alienation. It's a danger, to be sure, but not a given and doesn't take away the need for these "safe harbors".

HBCUs (love the acronym) exist for reason, the fact that black Americans are still disadvantaged as a group when it comes to educational opportunities. I long for the day when this type of school would serve no purpose, but we aren't there yet. I'm not criticizing your reasons for not going to one of them, and actually applaud them, but I understand and accept their necessary purpose in our society.

And to get back on topic, I feel the same way about Astrid's Parlor. I long for the day when a forum centered around female issues would be unnecessary, but today is not that day.

Oh, and I think I can one up you on the being an uber-minority, second-hand. I had a college pal who was black, Catholic-raised but Wiccan-practicing, a gamer (but not a metalhead), extremely short, and gay. We used to joke he was collecting minority statuses like we all collected Magic cards.

 

[roguerouge]

Forums devoted to women's issues. Pshaw!

Next you'll be telling me that there should be forums exclusively devoted to gamers who want to talk about new editions of RPGs. And that they'll have to be separated into a different forum from gamers who want to talk about playing with older versions, or in modern era, or in *gasp* other rule systems!

And then where will be? WHERE WILL BE THEN, HUH? HUH!?

Oh wait, we'll be here, won't we?

 

[frankthedm]

And then the obnoxious basement-dwelling troglodytes of the male gamer community swooped in to pee in everybody's cereal, nearly ruining the experience.

So are name calling and insults are alright if the victim is from the male gamer community?

 

[SavageRobby]

I think that some are missing the point of why there are certain males that really dislike the idea of an Asterid's Parlor (or Curves, or other perceived exclusionary-based groups): As a whole, men have been told we can't have that for ourselves, and that is especially true for white males - the so-called "majority".

I totally understand the sentiment - and have even felt it myself, on occasion. Why do you think that the "troglodytes" horn in and call people femi-nazis? Because those (the "femi-nazis") are the self-same folk that have forcibly cut off their access to do what is being done in that forum (or what they perceive, at least), and they're resentful about it. While their behavior stinks, the feeling of resentment is real, and somewhat justified.

While its okay to have female-only clubs and its okay to have the NAACP, but ohmygosh, consider the huge public stink if someone wanted to have a golf course that only serves old white guys! Imagine the outcry if someone tried to start a "white males only" club, even just a social one, on a campus of a public university.


What irks me is when someone says, "you just can't understand because you're not [_______]". I reject that outright, and I think people that say that are wrong, and are hiding behind and clinging to whatever minority they're a part of as shield. I think most people understand just fine, but don't like the huge social double standard - and if everyone were truly given the same treatment and allowances (regardless of race or color or gender), you wouldn't have the outcries against a forum like that. (No, scratch that. There are always ignorant folks who are undeniably backwards. So, I think you'd have far less of an issue, and then typically only by folks that still believe skin color or gender alone determines superiority.)

But the big social double standard does exist, and isn't likely to go away soon, since for some odd reason so many otherwise intelligent folks think the best way to remove prejudice is to make it systematic. And like it or not, it causes a fair amount of resentment. Heck, I'm fairly enlightened, and *I* occasionally resent it. But then, in specific, I also refrain from dumping in a forum like that; just because I may resent it doesn't mean I don't see the value of it (they're not incompatible feelings).

 

[GeorgeFields]

One for left-handed albino eskimo lesbian gamers?

I hope they do a left-handed forum...




Seriously, twenty years ago that forum would have been a great idea. In my nigh-thirty years of gaming, I've only had one instance where gender was an issue, and that was just one person believing D&D was a game "for the guys". Everybody else in the group told him to stick a sock in it and accept it or don't play.

Today, however, I know just as many women gamers as I do men. Hell, I have a few online buddies that are the ONLY male in the group. I don't think either of them need a forum to cope with it.

Any issues that exist today aren't with the women, it's with the people causing said issues.

 

[frankthedm]

How hard it is to find decent minitures of female adventurers dressed in appropriate armor.

There are some out there IIRC, but it does seem the majority of the figs are either exposing way too much skin or the plates are so form fitting the armor looks like it was melted on. IMHO Reaper mini 02551 : Monique De Noira is really grand example of impractical armor. A vampire, in fullplate, with exposed cleavage.

http://www.reapermini.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=565&cat=0&page=1

 

[roguerouge]

So are name calling and insults are alright if the victim is from the male gamer community?

Oh, come on, man!

Like we're going to pretend that there's no such thing as trolls in online forums? And we're going to pretend that some of them are not men, even when they self-identify as male? With the exception of basement-dwelling, she backed up every word of "obnoxious basement-dwelling troglodytes of the male gamer community."

That post's unworthy of your record. Argue that they weren't obnoxious, that they didn't fit the troll stereotype, or that they were, in fact, trapped in the attic.