opinions of "Asterids parlor"

[Puggins]

I dont think its that at all. Think of it like you own the business. You only have so much production capacity and shelf space in stores. Now you have one type of product that sells well reliably and makes you a tidy profit. Are you really gonna make the decision to pull some of those products off your limited shelf space and production capacity and put out the money to make several all new lines of basically untested products for a minority of a niche market and hope that they sell and you get your money back?

You're trying to defend a business decision that may or may not be a correct one. One of the goals of Astrid's is to get more women into our hobby. If one of the hurdles for women entering roleplaying is the inclusion of sexually slanted art or a lack of somewhat more realistic gaming material, wouldn't it be in the best interest of Astrid's (or WotC) to raise awareness of that issue?

Anyway, yesterday's stupid businessman is tomorrow's genius or tomorrow's roadkill. You're implying that appealing to women in a more conventional approach isn't going to grow the market enough to offset the loss of sales to those who buy products based on a cheesecake quotient. That may certainly be true, but it could be flatly false too, and you have no evidence to the contrary.

Well as i DM myself if someone is using my minis they take what i have or use a coin. If they are super particular about artwork and get pouty cause i didnt happen to buy something they liked then i guess they should have shelled out a couple bucks and bought one of thier own instead of expecting me to spend a fortune having every kind of mini anyone might want.

A girl complaining about a topless miniature is on a completely different level than some jackass who complains that you don't have a miniature with blond hair, leather armor and dual-wielded daggers. What if you showed up to a game sans a miniature and the only one the DM gave you as an option for a wizard was a guy wearing chaps, a dog collar and nothing else? Then what would you do if the rest of the guys would make comments full of sexual overtones for the rest of the evening, regardless of what you'd say?

Other then that, did your freind say "hey guys tone it down"? or anything of the sort?

Really easy to say when you're not surrounded by seven or eight guys a lot larger than you and all taking part in being complete s. Just because someone isn't brave enough to protest doesn't mean what happened isn't hideously unfair.

That sort of guy is never going to look at a forum for girl gamer issues anyway. So it really has no bearing on whether this sort of thing is helpful for that kind of situation.

You're implying that Astrid's is some sort of attempt at educating the misogynists that litter our hobby. I don't think it's that at all.

 

[Graf]

I am taking the fact that you spoiler blocked your original comment to be that you mis read what I was saying.

Indeed I was.
Owning up to the mistake instead of just deleting seemed better all in all.

 

[Dragon Snack]

I don't buy the argument that the reason minitures of female characters in practical armor don't sell is why you can't find them.

How would these companies know since they don't really give you a lot of choice.

The truth of the matter is that perception of gaming is that it is a male hobby which is why a lot of the art in the books are of sexy half naked woman in the stripper pose amd why most minitures are of sexy woman with stupid armor.

Point Of Information - there IS CHOICE.

Since Reaper was singled out as bad...

http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/darkheavenlegends/latest/03306

http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/Dark Heaven Legends/latest/03297_w_1

Even Hasslefree, with more than it's fair share of cheesecake, has Liberty, Libby, and Tiriel.

They ARE out there...

As for Astrid's, well I just avoid Gleemax anyway (among other things, I can't log in). I think it would be better served as something started up outside the realms of WotC's influence, so it would be allowed to grow 'organically' instead of stamped as official.

It amused me when I would be painting alongside a female player in my D&D game at the big LGS or a Con. Other women would naturally be drawn into conversation with her and ask if she was a gamer. For the longest time she would say "no, I just like painting". She was a gamer, she just didn't self-identify as one. This type of person is probably the one that Astrid's Parlor is aimed at, but since it's on a "gamer" website they will never visit.

And if they do happen to make it there, seeing other gamers debasing it would only drive them away faster...

 

[roguerouge]

Point Of Information - there IS CHOICE.

Ah... good ol' parliamentary debate.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Asterid's parlor is WOTC's way of changing the overall D&D culture in order to be more inviting to women. As it is, there are many elements in overall D&D culture that are unfriendly to women.

If Asterid's parlor is not making D&D more welcoming to women, what will be? If you were the person in charge of getting more women into D&D, how would you go about doing it? Is it a goal worth devoting resources to?

 

[ironvyper]

I'm making the assumption that, by the addition of "allegedly," you are implying that you are skeptical that white males have more influence in today's modern society. Is that correct, or are you trying to be egalitarian about the situation?

3 presidential candidates, a half black raised in the orient, a woman and one guy so old even as a republican i wont vote for him. So yes 2 out of 3 is not a minority when it comes to power.

This is promoting relativism, which I think is usually a good thing. But whether or not people perceive their situation as just as dire as minority X doesn't make it true. I'm a white male, and I grew up with plenty of angst, true, but I recognize that I really don't know how an African American feels like growing up in the United States.

Well relatively speaking i am a german american, and when my family moved here in 1950 slavery in the US was well dead and gone. So what do i have to do with an issue some english and dutch did 200 years before anyone i was related to even lived here?

And being white doesnt mean u arent a minority or excluded from the american normal culture. Lots of things we grew up with even 3rd generation arent exactly MTV and valley speak. So being white doesnt mean your part of some supermajority here automatically. White immigrants from around the world come here everyday with no place in the culture at all. Attaching race to power based on the color of your skin shows ignorance, acceptance. just ask the irish, germans, and italians who came here over the last 150 years and got crapped on for generations.

So no, i dont know how an african american feels, but he doesnt know how i feel, does he? And whatever issues he has with slavery or racism are against the english and thier descendents, not me. So i dont appreciate him dropping his baggage at my door, i dont bring him or her mine, so why should i be expected to take thiers?

More relevant to this discussion, do you really think the average white male's angst is as justified by someone who has to worry about getting drunk at a party for the fear of date rape? Or someone who is subject to all sorts of really annoying sexual advances at their place of work or at their favorite hobby shop (an extremely frequent occurrence, apparently)?

I think that as someone who could afford an elite university and had a groomsman u have as much insight into the average white man in americas perspective as my dog. And maybe u should live our lives for a bit before automatically branding us the villain just because your university professors happened to be communist ex hippies who successfully indoctrinated you.

 

[ironvyper]

You're trying to defend a business decision that may or may not be a correct one. One of the goals of Astrid's is to get more women into our hobby. If one of the hurdles for women entering roleplaying is the inclusion of sexually slanted art or a lack of somewhat more realistic gaming material, wouldn't it be in the best interest of Astrid's (or WotC) to raise awareness of that issue?

From a business perspective? NO. You dont lose money to make some social statement unless you have serious market research saying its worthwhile or you have some government organization covering your losses.

So i guess the answer is for more girls to take surveys. Because if a large percentage of the people who took WOTC surveys or ones for the other mini companies told them they wanted any one particular thing than that thing would get made. Companies pay attention to people who are willing to take the time to answer a survey. But if u wont take 5 minutes to tell the company what you think, then it really isnt important enough to u to influence your buying decisions. At least as a current marketing professional, thats our perspective.

A girl complaining about a topless miniature is on a completely different level than some jackass who complains that you don't have a miniature with blond hair, leather armor and dual-wielded daggers. What if you showed up to a game sans a miniature and the only one the DM gave you as an option for a wizard was a guy wearing chaps, a dog collar and nothing else? Then what would you do if the rest of the guys would make comments full of sexual overtones for the rest of the evening, regardless of what you'd say?

Its not even slightly different. Minis are expensive. If a girl player doesnt want to use a mini that a man would choose (ie usually half naked, cause, umm half naked girls are hot) then she had better buy her own. Its fine for a girl to expect me to be nice and sensitive, when she starts telling me i need to pre-emptively spend my money on something she likes but not enough to buy with her own money.... its time i tell her to get a job. Because my money goes to things i like, and her money can go to things she likes. Thats equality, thats equal. Buy your own crap with your own money is about as equal as i can imagine. Euality isnt fun, its fair. Thats why its called equal.

 

[Graf]

thread lock in 3... 2... 1...

 

[Eridanis]

...zero.

Thread closed. See Kid C's warning above, which was blown past like a Stop sign on a deserted road.