opinions of "Asterids parlor"

[Dire Bare]

Yes, those in a position of relative power can seem quite insensitive to those who aren't so gifted, meaning that such environments do need to exist.

However, its much more important to take questions like the OP's as a chance for initiating constructive conversation rather than bristling when the unspoken becomes spoken.

Saying that a post like "blah blah blah" is exactly the reason why X exists isn't exactly helpful. Nor is using charged language garnered from similar discussion. Even if the intent was just to point out that one shouldn't use such language, some will only hear/see the offending terminology and tune out to the point being made.

I think you misunderstood me- I have no problem with the existence of a women's issue gaming forum. I was merely cautioning against overimersion within it to the exclusion of other forums. That could lead to a skewed viewpoint or hypersensitivity to the form or substance of questions about the issues discussed within it.

Within my own subculture, "because I'm black," is the catchphrase for that kind of hypersensitivity.

Damn you and your reasoned discourse! You point out my tragic flaw sir, that I get emotionally riled when faced with ignorance (not a jab at the OP) and respond in a less than constructive fashion. Well played sir, well played indeed.

Well, I can't match "gay," but I'm only 5'7"...a few inches shorter than the US average, at least. But I can't say I've met any black Wiccans, and I know a few Wiccans! That dude should have been nicknamed "Black Lotus!"

The sad one I can add is my educational level- fewer than 1 in 500 black college graduates go into Law (only Medicine, and Hard Science/Engineering degrees are rarer), and fewer still get a second graduate degree. I say this is sad because there is a growing anti-intellectual streak in the black community- you'd be surprised to hear some of my relatives say I "talk funny"/"talk white."

You are a giant compared to my college buddy (hmm, wonder where he's gotten to), who was something under 5' (he was really, really short). He also was criticized by black friends and family for "acting white". One of the main reasons he never came out of the closet (at least while I knew him) was the level of crap he was already taking from family.

Well, as I've already personally stepped over the line of polite and reasoned discourse and the no politics rule here at ENWorld, I'm done in this thread. In before the lock!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But if you are seriously equating the topic at hand, a gaming forum dedicated to women's issues but not restricted to the participation of women only, to the NAACP (positive) and a "white males only club" (negative) . . . then I just feel for you man, as I find that kinda sad. BTW, you do know that white men and women CAN join the NAACP, right? Because a group that focuses on African-American issues desires the input and support of ALL Americans . . . . hmmm, not a bad comparison to Astrid's Parlor after all . . .

Similarly, in New Orleans, a black woman (among others) sued the Mardi Gras Krewes for being organizations that practiced descrimination against various minorities while simultaneously getting the preferential treatment for their parades and using their clubs as facilitators of political & business deals within the city.

She won- the Krewes were ordered to integrate or cease parading. Many ceased. However, some didn't, and Harry Connick, Jr. even started up the Krewe of Orpheus (one of the best, IMHO).

But the most interesting situation involved the Krewe of Zulu. At the time, it was an all-black Krewe...not that anyone was actually barred from the Krewe by race, etc. Still, the Court's ruling meant that they, too, had to integrate.

Which is why there is at least one Klansman in the Krewe of Zulu.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Just like to chime in my support for Asterid's Parlour. Haven't been there (not signed on to Gleemax) but I think it's a great idea.

Folk like Krissbeth and Roguerouge have basically said everything I would like to say on the matter, only in a much more reasoned and eloquent way than I would.

cheers all,
Glen.
(straight, white, male, aged 30-40, full time employed professional, university educated. Everyone listens to me. Nuts and gum, together at last!)

PS: just a question to any black (or other racial minority) gamers out there, and one meant to provoke discussion, not argument: Would you like to see a forum like Asterid's Parlour that engages with gaming issues from a specifically non-white POV? Like for instance the over-whelming Euro-centric nature of the game worlds or just being in a minority at the gaming table? Possibly this should be another thread....

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

just a question to any black (or other racial minority) gamers out there, and one meant to provoke discussion, not argument: Would you like to see a forum like Asterid's Parlour that engages with gaming issues from a specifically non-white POV? Like for instance the over-whelming Euro-centric nature of the game worlds or just being in a minority at the gaming table? Possibly this should be another thread....

Personally, I've long since reconciled myself to the eurocentricism in the game worlds- AFAIK, the hobby itself is strongly eurocentric in its demographics. OTOH, I'm not sure such a forum really needs to exist. After all, there are few real stereotypes about RW minorities in RPGs (or, for that matter, in much of the underlying Sci/Fant fiction post 1940)...except for women. Once pulp fiction mutated stories about semi-naked black savages in Africa into stories about semi-naked green 4 armed giants on Mars, racial stereotypes weren't much of an issue.

Women, OTOH, still have to deal with cheesecake novel covers and interior art for games, minis that have sexy but impractical clothing/armor, and the like. I won't name names, but as recently as 2 years ago, my FLGS carried a particular line of 3rd party adventures that featured covers with curvaceous women (and ONLY women) who looked like they were strippers. One quasi-"arabian" themed module even included a brass pole for the scantily clad woman to lounge against- reinforcing the image.

(I know they sold, but I couldn't even touch one- too sleazy for me.)

I love products like Nyambe, or TSR's old attempts to bring us gaming analogues of Asian lands or pre-Columbian MesoAmerican cultures, and so forth...though I'd really like to see game designers who grew up in those cultures (or their cultural lineal descendants) do their own take on them. But as long as the majority of RPG sales are in Europe and North America, we won't see that anytime soon.

Still, with a little desire & creativity, one can find the RPG equivalent of the minority experience. You just need to play a race that is in the campaign world's minority...and hope your DM is up to the task.

That's why I was playing a Drow back in 1982- long before anyone heard of Drizzt- and Minotaurs, etc. as soon as I had the option.

 

[Fenes]

As others pointed out - the Astrid's parlor is open to every poster, so it's not a "women's only" club. And it's no different at all from any other forum with a specific topic, like optimisation, 4E, or (insert profession).

I also see the need for it - there are several threads on ENW where "women's issues" are touched, even if they arenot labeled or even seen as such. But the "creeped out by getting hit upon/harassed/etc." is a topic that comes up rather regularily.

As far as eurocentric goes, I am not so sure I'd call games eurocentric. It's more what the US considers eurocentric medieval, but the culture those games are written from is often very US-colored, at least in my opinion (regarding feudalism, class consciousness, etc.).

 

[Keefe the Thief]

So, i´m a member of a non-profit organization which helps people who have accidents while climbing, skiing etc. And while more and more women join, it´s still a really male-o-centric organization. And we get discussions like these.

You know, discussions where people say: "You are integrated now! You do not need separate rooms/gear/fora/whatever!" A lot. And you know what gets me every time? The people who say "you don´t need this anymore" always insist that "i´m doing this on your behalf!"

And it makes me sick. Because what it means is "i can really detect injustice and gender problems MUCH better than you, woman! Trust me to decide this for you!" As a man, it sometimes makes me deeply ashamed of some other men. Most of the time, i just get angry, though.

PS: I like to knit.

 

[Afrodyte]

Would you like to see a forum like Asterid's Parlour that engages with gaming issues from a specifically non-white POV? Like for instance the over-whelming Euro-centric nature of the game worlds or just being in a minority at the gaming table?

The short answer: yes. The long answer is best served for another thread.

 

[krissbeth]

PS: I like to knit.

Sweet!

 

[JustKim]

PS: just a question to any black (or other racial minority) gamers out there, and one meant to provoke discussion, not argument: Would you like to see a forum like Asterid's Parlour that engages with gaming issues from a specifically non-white POV? Like for instance the over-whelming Euro-centric nature of the game worlds or just being in a minority at the gaming table? Possibly this should be another thread....

I've never really thought about it before, but I have proposed a couple of non-eurocentric campaigns to my players over the years and their response has always been a bewildered "why?". I have been very interested in the progress of settings like Nyambe and that that South Pacific one that was on the forum about a year ago. A special forum would be nice for discussing settings like this. But as far as forging a community, "I am nonwhite" is really not a unifying theme and I wouldn't necessarily have more in common with anyone posting there.

 

[Delta]

Remember, though, that while women gamers maybe non majority, half of the population of the world is comprised of women. So, really, it's not at all similar at all to making up a forum for left-handed albino lactose intolerant gamers. There are a ton of women in the world, and Wizards wants a ton of those women to play their games. The point of the forum isn't to have a place to separate women from men. The point is to have a place where people feel comfortable talking about things they wouldn't otherwise bring up.

Hey, Sandwich, interesting stuff! Can I ask where you work?