Opportunity Attack / Longbow

[Klaus]

A nice little Belt of the Brawler and presto, your unarmed strikes work like club attacks.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

A kick by someone not trained in martial arts, which is like, almost all characters, is completely worthless even if you do connect, but likely you'll just get eviscerated for doing such a slow and clumsy attack if you try for the head. A martial artist who IS trained in how to kick will tell you a punch is far more effective, it's faster and hits harder. Add heavy armour and your kicking someone in the face isn't even possible.

So do you allow unarmed attacks, while armed to everyone who isn't wearing plate and similarly restrictive armour, or do you just not allow unarmed attacks to people who are armed?

As I DM I'd say they'd have to have at least one hand free and capable of wielding a weapon in order to make effective unarmed attacks. So my rule is that you need to be unarmed to make unarmed attacks...

The attack gets no proficiency bonus and does only 1d4 damage. I think is bad enough of an option already that you dont have to completely break it down so that it is totally useless.

 

[Mort_Q]

In case anyone cares, a longbow would be a one handed imrovised melee weapon as per the weight rules and do 1d4 damage with no proficiency bonus.

I agree, but some people are taking the line from the PH 215, that says "you can't use a ranged weapon as a melee weapon" to mean that you can't use a bow as an improvised melee weapon as well.

@Mort_Q: There are a few more conditions, than unconscious, that prevent OAs. Dazed, for example, is already sufficient.

Oh, I know, I was just too lazy to list them all, so I just included the "and somesuch."

 

[ForbidenMaster]

I agree, but some people are taking the line from the PH 215, that says "you can't use a ranged weapon as a melee weapon" to mean that you can't use a bow as an improvised melee weapon as well.



Oh, I know, I was just too lazy to list them all, so I just included the "and somesuch."

At what point does a bow stop being a bow? If I cut the bowstring, can I then hit a guy with this stick that used to work as a bow?

I think that at some point all of this gets a bit silly and we just have to use our common sense.

 

[Obryn]

IMO, the line about not using a Missile weapon as a Melee weapon is just for clarification that you don't get the Proficiency bonus. It's silly to imply you couldn't bludgeon someone with the butt of your crossbow, for example.

I think Regicide's reading is overly literal and not really in the spirit of 4e combat.

-O

 

[Thanee]

Oh, I know, I was just too lazy to list them all, so I just included the "and somesuch."

I see. Thought you meant similar (drastic) conditions.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Regicide]

I don't know about you, Regicide, but a kick to the shin can hurt plenty.

Yeah, breaking your toe on a godplate greave sure would hurt.

It's silly to imply you couldn't bludgeon someone with the butt of your crossbow, for example.

What I think is silly is thinking the butt of a crossbow could ever be used effectively. Trained swordsman vs. guy with butt of crossbow, guy with butt of crossbow will never, ever, ever land a blow. Ever. Guy who drops crossbow and picks up a rock is much more effective.

 

[Obryn]

Yeah, breaking your toe on a godplate greave sure would hurt.

Oh, now, come on. It's a fantasy trope that unarmed combat is always an option, no matter how well-armored the other guy is. Sometimes it hilariously fails, but other times it's just what you needed.

At Epic level, an unarmed attack is probably about 8-9 points worse than a typical weapon attack, though, so it's likely going to fail spectacularly.

What I think is silly is thinking the butt of a crossbow could ever be used effectively. Trained swordsman vs. guy with butt of crossbow, guy with butt of crossbow will never, ever, ever land a blow. Ever. Guy who drops crossbow and picks up a rock is much more effective.

*shrug* It's not you or me trying to make this work, though. It's a fantasy hero who can level whole villages of kobolds without breaking a sweat. Hitting someone in the skull with the butt of a heavy crossbow seems perfectly reasonable to me. It's at least as reasonable as a head-butt or a quick uppercut.

Like I said, I just think you're being overly literal in your reading of the rules. As it is, the guy with the improvised weapon will still suck out loud by mid to high levels, but it's fun, so I'm happy to give it a chance.

-O

 

[Infiniti2000]

What I think is silly is thinking the butt of a crossbow could ever be used effectively. Trained swordsman vs. guy with butt of crossbow, guy with butt of crossbow will never, ever, ever land a blow. Ever. Guy who drops crossbow and picks up a rock is much more effective.

Why stop there? If you're serious about your comments here, then surely you don't think a dagger is effective against a trained swordsman. So, tell the double dagger wielding watchyamacallit-build-guy that he can no longer use daggers as melee weapons against anyone with a sword.

You're sliding down a slippery slope. Where are you going to artificially set the break point?

 

[abyssaldeath]

Real world examples just do not work in a Heroic fantasy game. The is a game of HEROES not just some people trained to use weapons. They can do things no other person can. Like kill someone with a tea cup. (Movie reference, but I think it works.)