D&D 5E Optimal dungeon exploring techniques

[iserith]

5th edition ends up with some very weird meta-gamey requirements due to rule interactions.

What do you mean?

Problem #1: Illumination

All of our party has darkvision, but when exploring an unknown area, the disadvantage from only getting dim light is really bad. Our Ranger has a 17 passive perception, but with disadvantage it becomes a 12 which means he won't notice most traps or stealthed bad guys.

How are people handling this?

Observant feat, as you say. My low-level rogue, Chuck Dagger, has a passive Perception of 20 thanks to Observant, Expertise, and a +1 Wis bonus. Even at disadvantage, it's still a pretty good bonus. Unless you're talking about a serious lurker or well-hidden trap, he finds it.

It makes me wonder how often the bad guys are "stealthed" in your game, however. It doesn't come up a whole lot in mine.

Problem 2: Magic Traps

Perception doesn't help find magic traps in most cases. So the ranger has walked into these (particularly the alarm spell). The DMG (pg. 121) says you use Intelligence (Arcana) for detecting magic traps in all cases. This means we need to send someone to the front with high Arcana, probably our wizard. Alternately, we can have a detect magic running at all times, but that uses concentration, as well as requires a 10 minute ritual every 10 minutes.

Is this the optimal way to help cover our bases while minimizing the risk?

I see this as a DM issue - failure to telegraph hidden threats. If the trap is not telegraphed, what you essentially have are some numbers compared to each other to determine a result independent of player decision (outside of marching order and character build, presuming the task while exploring is always "keep watch"). This is not a satisfying challenge, if it can even be considered a challenge at all. Rather, it's a gotcha. I don't know about you, but I think gotchas are weak.

Telegraphing is like showing you have cards in your hand, but not what those cards are until the players do something to get you to reveal it. For example, perhaps the PCs find a box of tiny bells and a spool of wire early on while exploring the wizard's tower. The players may deduce that these are the material components for an alarm spell and, judging by how many the wizard has in stock, that he or she probably casts this spell a lot. Thus, it makes sense to send the party's wizard to the front of the marching order to keep an eye out for areas warded by this spell, at least while exploring the archmage's tower. The DM has telegraphed the presence of alarm spells in this adventure location and the players have cleverly made a decision to mitigate their chances of running afoul of them.

In the doing, the DM also creates an expectation that they don't have to have the wizard in the front line for every adventure location - just this one. This means you don't have to set up these "standard operating procedures" of particular marching orders, tasks, and magic spells in effect. It also tells the players that if they pay attention to and engage with the environment, they can improve their odds of success. It's a win-win all around. The players don't always pick up on the telegraphing and sometimes make the wrong decisions even when they do, but in any case it does create an actual challenge and removes the perception of it being a gotcha.

Of course, this isn't something over which you as a player have control. Talking to your DM may help, but ultimately it is up to your DM to change how he or she presents challenges like these.

 

[Psikerlord#]

If the ranger is actively searching, wouldn't you make a perception check, rather than passive? You could have one of the other PCs "help" him or her, which would offset the disadvantage. Of course, that means they'd have to be up there with the ranger...

I guess the lesson is that when searching unknown dungeons in the dark, finding things won't be easy.

This. Also, just dont use passive perception. It breaks things and doesnt help the game (at all).

 

[Psikerlord#]

Heh. As a player, I find it boring too. I want to stumble over things sometimes, so I never concern myself over optimal exploration. Figure the DM will set stuff up that's interesting, especially if I don't try to bypass it

This is another reason why folks should simply scrap passive perception and just roll every time. You will get the occasional surprise. On the other hand, a very high specialised passive perception = boring.

 

[iserith]

If the ranger is actively searching, wouldn't you make a perception check, rather than passive?

That's not how passive checks work. A passive check does not mean or imply that you're not actively performing a task. In fact, it's quite the opposite: You're performing a task (with an uncertain outcome) repeatedly.

You could have one of the other PCs "help" him or her, which would offset the disadvantage. Of course, that means they'd have to be up there with the ranger...

That's a good idea.

 

[HarrisonF]

What do you mean?

The combination of perception not finding magical traps and also darkvision giving you disadvantage on looking for things. It makes the solo scouting ahead role a very, very specialized one that requires building a character around it, or doing kinda silly things like how I described the setup.

It makes me wonder how often the bad guys are "stealthed" in your game, however. It doesn't come up a whole lot in mine.

Both our fighter and cleric wear heavy armor, so they fail stealth constantly. This gives the bad guys a bit of a heads up and they tend to do makeshift ambushes. Often they aren't very well hidden, but if you have a 12 perception, we still walk into them.

Of course, this isn't something over which you as a player have control. Talking to your DM may help, but ultimately it is up to your DM to change how he or she presents challenges like these.

We are actually running through HotDQ and RoT (with some modifications), so most of the threats are from the books. Most traps have been telegraphed and done well. The above case of smart enemies reacting to our loud intrusion is probably the more common one.

 

[Skyscraper]

One word on optimizing exploration:

Ten-foot pole baby!

Okay, that was three words. Or four.

 

[iserith]

The combination of perception not finding magical traps and also darkvision giving you disadvantage on looking for things. It makes the solo scouting ahead role a very, very specialized one that requires building a character around it, or doing kinda silly things like how I described the setup.

Does your DM ask for an ability check for just about any described act of investigating, perceiving, or searching? Or are there cases where you automatically succeed (or fail) based on how you approach something?

Both our fighter and cleric wear heavy armor, so they fail stealth constantly. This gives the bad guys a bit of a heads up and they tend to do makeshift ambushes. Often they aren't very well hidden, but if you have a 12 perception, we still walk into them.

Is the DM calling for individual checks or a group check? In a group check, only half the group is required to succeed. This helps mitigate the chance of failure when you're skulking about with heavily-armored characters. The fictional requirement is that you're trying to accomplish something as a group (sneak around or get the jump on some monsters, say) and that the skilled characters can reasonably help cover the less skilled ones.

We are actually running through HotDQ and RoT (with some modifications), so most of the threats are from the books. Most traps have been telegraphed and done well. The above case of smart enemies reacting to our loud intrusion is probably the more common one.

I don't recall how the traps are telegraphed in HotDQ, but I'll take your word for it. Most DMs in my experience fail in this respect - and many of the adventure designers, too.

 

[Rhenny]

I like to have the hidden creature or trap/hidden object roll a d20 with mods for stealth/Dex bonuses and proficiency whenever I use passive perception to reveal information. This keeps the random element (and if the roll is hidden, it doesn't tip the players off).

 

[Uchawi]

Left turns in dungeons are inherently riskier, so only choose right turns for optimal exploration.

 

[GMMichael]

Forgive me if this is too obvious, but what kind of dungeon/cave are the PCs exploring, that is infested with monsters who:

1) Don't use light sources,
2) Are always ready for battle,
3) Have memorized the locations of several traps and can find them in the dark, and
4) Have memorized the locations of several MAGICAL traps, and can also find these in the dark?