D&D 5E Optimal dungeon exploring techniques

[HarrisonF]

Does your DM ask for an ability check for just about any described act of investigating, perceiving, or searching? Or are there cases where you automatically succeed (or fail) based on how you approach something?

If we are describing investigating or searching something very specifically that was described in the scene, than no roll will be needed (ie. I check under the rug and automatically find the secret door if there is one). In addition, even if we are more vague (I check the room for secrets), but not hurried (ie. no negative to failing a roll), then we can use our passive values to find things automatically. Rolls tend to only occur when we can't do things repeatedly or there is a direct drawback if we fail.

Is the DM calling for individual checks or a group check? In a group check, only half the group is required to succeed. This helps mitigate the chance of failure when you're skulking about with heavily-armored characters. The fictional requirement is that you're trying to accomplish something as a group (sneak around or get the jump on some monsters, say) and that the skilled characters can reasonably help cover the less skilled ones.

It depends on if we are in a group or split up. If in a group, then it is a group check. We have two stealthy individuals (wizard is +7 for stealth, ranger is +9, cleric is +0 disadvantage, fighter is +2 disadvantage). If we have pass without trace up, then we can do decently quite often. However, when we have a scout very far forward, it tends to be waves of stealth checks, first the forward ranger as individual and then the rear guard as a group without the ranger (which fails a lot). I'm not sure that is actually the correct call with all of the mechanics in play -- particularly if we are going to use the Help action to negate the dim light penalty for the ranger scouting.

With that said, the ranger player really wants to scout since that is what he is supposed to do according to the stereotype. It seems kinda flawed if the system really wants to discourage that due to various mechanics.

I don't recall how the traps are telegraphed in HotDQ, but I'll take your word for it. Most DMs in my experience fail in this respect - and many of the adventure designers, too.

Really, there aren't a lot of traps. Mostly it has been alerted people in ambushes and the occasional alarm spell and rarely something worse.

 

[HarrisonF]

Forgive me if this is too obvious, but what kind of dungeon/cave are the PCs exploring, that is infested with monsters who:

1) Don't use light sources,
2) Are always ready for battle,
3) Have memorized the locations of several traps and can find them in the dark, and
4) Have memorized the locations of several MAGICAL traps, and can also find these in the dark?

Not all dungeon/caves have all of these things. Often it is a mixture of them in various quantities, but often the exact number unknown until you start failing at them.

With that said, it can and does happen. A few games ago we were fighting a very crafty, magic-using dragon in it's ice cave lair with Kobolds and half-dragons as support. Describing each part from your list:

1. Dragon has blindsight/darkvision, half-dragons have blindsight/darkvision, kobolds have darkvision but are forced to deal with it. There were *some* lights occasionally for tasks like reading, but the majority was dark.
2. The kobolds and half-dragons have watches setup, why would that be weird?
3. The dragon lair had some dead ends that had traps in them so all of the kobolds and half-dragons could just avoid the corridor entirely. There were clues about which way to go at intersections, but we missed them without a light source.
4. Magic traps are easily set to avoid certain types of creatures, namely half-dragons, kobolds, and dragons. So they walk over them fine, but we don't. For example, Glyph of Warding allows for exactly this. The dragon also had Alarm spells on his specific den location approaches which awoke him as well.

 

[Rya.Reisender]

Large rooms are a bit more common and where the bad guys are often located. Losing a surprise round is really rough in 5e, so it is important to not allow others to get the jump on you imo.

Rooms that are larger than 60x60 feet? Haven't seen those in official adventure modules yet.
Also you can just switch off the light when you reach a large room like that. Traps are more likely to be in narrow passages anyway.

 

[iserith]

It depends on if we are in a group or split up. If in a group, then it is a group check. We have two stealthy individuals (wizard is +7 for stealth, ranger is +9, cleric is +0 disadvantage, fighter is +2 disadvantage). If we have pass without trace up, then we can do decently quite often. However, when we have a scout very far forward, it tends to be waves of stealth checks, first the forward ranger as individual and then the rear guard as a group without the ranger (which fails a lot). I'm not sure that is actually the correct call with all of the mechanics in play -- particularly if we are going to use the Help action to negate the dim light penalty for the ranger scouting.

I would call for a group Stealth check in the case of the party with a scout up ahead. This is the very definition of what a group check is in my view - the more skilled characters helping the less skilled ones. Perhaps talking to your DM about that will help solve the issue.

 

[HarrisonF]

Rooms that are larger than 60x60 feet? Haven't seen those in official adventure modules yet.
Also you can just switch off the light when you reach a large room like that. Traps are more likely to be in narrow passages anyway.

Light from a torch or light spell is 40' range, but others can see it from further away.

The big issue is that light casts into the room prior to you entering it. So if there is anyone in a room, when we first approach it the light casts into it and lets everyone know we are coming. Depending on where they are in the room, we may or may not get a chance to see them. They can then take an action or two as we approach (such as setting up an adhoc ambush, or pre-buffing, or running for help). This can happen even if the room is smaller than 40'.

I would agree that traps in a large room are pretty rare. Rooms are much more common for bad guys than traps.

 

[Greg Benage]

Light from a torch or light spell is 40' range, but others can see it from further away.

The big issue is that light casts into the room prior to you entering it. So if there is anyone in a room, when we first approach it the light casts into it and lets everyone know we are coming. Depending on where they are in the room, we may or may not get a chance to see them. They can then take an action or two as we approach (such as setting up an adhoc ambush, or pre-buffing, or running for help). This can happen even if the room is smaller than 40'.

Hooded lantern. Scout drops the hood as he approaches a room.

 

[jgsugden]

Traditional Dwarven Barbarian approach: Run in and make things go boom.

Beyond that, scouting slightly ahead of the group with a character that has darkvision is the best opion. High int / arcana is useful, too, for the reasons you mentioned, but the number of high arcana / high perception characters out there is limited.

 

[HarrisonF]

Based on the various ideas in the thread, I think that if we just have the Wizard and Ranger scouting and both doing Help on the other for Perception/Arcana, we should be fine. That will give the Ranger a passive perception of 17 and the Wizard an arcana of 24. If we are expecting more traps, we can go the light route and get the Ranger up to 22 passive perception, but I suspect in most cases that won't be needed.

If we keep everyone within 30', pass without trace can apply to everyone for the group stealth.

The key thing I didn't think of was using the Help to negate the disadvantage from the dim light-only darkvision.

 

[Eltab]

Disadvantage <> "-5 to d20 rolls".
Disadvantage = "roll 2d20 and use the lower roll".

 

[Ovinomancer]

Disadvantage <> "-5 to d20 rolls".
Disadvantage = "roll 2d20 and use the lower roll".

It is, however, -5 to passive scores. Pretty sure no one's suggested it's -5 to rolls.