Optimizing A Bard

[Timely Drought]

So, I'm going to play in a D&D 3.5e campaign soon. All the basic roles are covered by other players, and I felt like playing a bard. However, I've never tackled the issue of optimizing bards, nor looking at bard-related feats and prestige classes. I've barely glanced at the spell list. We'll be using core books + complete series only.

I was thinking of just going pure, picking up perform, social skills, and a few knowledge skills. No clue which feats to pick, and I haven't looked at bard prestige classes at all. Is there anyone thats looked at bard optimization options? I know I won't be tremendous help in combat probably, bard song will help, and with luck I can get some handy items to UMD.

I'm guessing I'll be an archer bard over a melee bard, but I haven't really looked at the benefits of each. However, I'd like my main stat to be charisma, and my main focus on spellcasting and social skills, and not worry too much about combat.

Any suggestions on where to go with bards? I'd really like to see what people have done with bards and how they've built them through campaigns.

 

[Artoomis]

Here is what I have done. At first, I went almost totally for the social aspect, neglecting most combat skills. this included choosing the whip - for fun, rather than true effectiveness.

My Eberron Bard:

Stats (in priority order):

INT 18 (for skill points)
CHA 16 (for obvious reasons)
WIS 12 (because the bard is more mental than physical)
CON 12 (for survivability)
DEX 10
STR 10

Skill points:

1. Diplomacy (max)
2. Use Magic Device (eventually will give you GREAT flexibility)
3. Gather Information (You really ought to do this)
4. Knowledge (various, as much as you can, because, well, you're a BARD)

Well, you get the idea, I think.

Spells (at 19th level)

1.

Detect Magic
Know Direction
Light
Prestidigitation
Read Magic
Summon Instrument

2.

Comp. Languages
Cure Lt. Wounds
Feather Fall
Identify
Improvisation
Inspirational Boost
Magic Missile
Battle Hymn
Dimensional Leap
Rope Trick
Speak to Allies
Tongues
Wraithstrike

3.

Displacement
Haste
Major Image
Scrying
Sculpt Sound

4.

Freedom of Movement
Invisibility (Greater)
Mirror Image (Greater)
Ruin Delver's Fortune

5.

Body Harmonic
Dispel Magic (Greater)
Shadow Evocation
Shadow Walk

6.

Dirge
Irresistible Dance
Project Image

Classes:

Bard 7
Legacier of Galifar (custom) 5
Lyric Thaumaturge (spelled wrong!) 5
Heir of Syberus 2

Feats:

Force of Personality
Heroic Spirit
Lingering Music (VERY important)
Melodic Casting (Also VERY important)
Song of the Heart (very, very useful)
Spell Focus (Transmutation) (What a waste, really)
Versatile Performer
Action Surge
Captivating Melody (Have not used it yet)
Weapon Focus (Whip)

My basic approach was to emphasize non-combat fun stuff, and, especially at first, I counted all damage done as a result of Inspire Courage as credited to me. That made my general ineffectiveness in combat (at low levels) as acceptable.

Also, it's fun to strip weapons from enemies!

 

[Artoomis]

You can also look to
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1018968.
http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-795369.html
http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-816095.html
http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-826298.html
http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-943298.html
http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-952766.html

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Mistwell had an awesome thread on inspire courage optimization as well, if anyone has a link. And whip is a very effective weapon. It lets you trip and disarm from afar. My friend liked to fight casters by readying actions to disarm them of their material components mid-casting.

 

[taliesin15]

As to Bard spells, I really try to go for all the Sonic-oriented spells, in addition to the usual combo of offense and defense. Modify Memory, Ventriloquism, Whispering Wind, Sculpt Sound, Shout, etc. I find Phantom Steed very useful, as Bards definitely travel a lot. On the other hand, I really gotta wonder why a Bard would really get Identify and Legend Lore given Bardic Knowledge.

The low HP of a Bard tends to rule out the Melee-oriented Bard, though with a really high DEX score, I suppose one route could be to work up Feats to Spring Attack, or even Whirlwind Attack.

Usually, it seems the best option is the Archer Bard--makes sense with the Bard's natural support role and usually higher than average Dex score.

I see I'm not the only advocate of a Bard with high INT score--I tend to think emphasis on the many Skill points is a good approach--supplementing these with the INT bonuses really makes sense. This tends to yield a character who's a bit like a Rogue, and possibly a Bard could substitute for a Rogue since there are many skill overlaps. One thing I find interesting is both Rogue and Bard tend to be at home in urban settings; and yet, there's much to the Bard that seems at home in the Wilderness too.

Usually, it seems that WIS and STR are going to be the lower scores--a high CON makes since with d6 per level. That said, some campaign milieus are very culturally oriented. IMC, a major part of the milieu is Viking in flavor--the Skald tends to be more melee-oriented. Further west, you have Celts whose Bards are a bit more like Clerics and Druids, a combo of those plus sages (or Loremasters, a class I find utterly cheesy).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A high Dex, high Int, low Wis score Bard always makes me think of the immortal Danny Kaye, especially in his lead role in the hilarious "The Court Jester."

Its kind of my personal archetype for Bards and Bard-like PCs.

(I used to run a 2Ed PC called "Harlequin" who was a F/MU/Th, who did things like insult the big dragon and somehow talked her way out of the jam...sometimes only her.)

 

[taliesin15]

Course there are some WIS based skills you might like to have bonuses for. Of all the core classes, Bard is probably the one I'd play if my first lvl character had all 16s in Ability scores

 

[Timely Drought]

We're using 30 point buy, so I'm thinking of the following:

Ability Scores
Str 10
Dex 14
Con 10
Int 16
Wis 8
Cha 16

Skills                      1    5    10    Comments

Bluff                       4    9    13    Diplomacy synergy
Concentration               4    9    13
Decipher Script             2    5    5     UMD scroll synergy
Diplomacy                   4    9    13
Gather Information          4    9    13
Knowledge (History)         4    5    5     Bardic knowledge synergy
Knowledge (Nobility)        4    5    5     Diplomacy synergy
Listen                      4    9    13
Perform (Sing)              4    9    13
Sense Motive                4    9    13    Diplomacy synergy
Spellcraft                  1    1    11    UMD scroll synergy
Use Magic Device            1    1    13

Feats
1. Jack of all Trades
1. Lingering Song
3. Versatile Performer (wind, string, oratory)
6. Disguise Spell
9. Subsonics

I've only planned levels 1 to 10 so far. I looked at virtuoso and sublime chord, but I didnt like to loss of class skills and skill points. Other than the core books, we only have access to the complete series. All of the feats I picked are from complete adventurer. The leadership feat will probably be banned since we have a big group.

Do the bluff, knowledge (nobility), and sense motive synergies stack to +6, or do I only get +2 with all three at 5 or more?

 

[Timely Drought]

Looking at the Melodic Casting feat, I wonder which feat I should swap out for it. I'm thinking of delaying Lingering Song until 9th level instead of subsonics.

Although the disguise spell + subsonics combo looks like fun. Whistle a tune (hard to spot and inaudible) to cast spells without being noticed.

It would also save me the concentration skill points. Not sure which skill to pick up though, perhaps Sleight of Hand?

 

[taliesin15]

Skills you haven't listed that I would consider important:
Bard Class Skills: Appraise, Climb, Disguise, Escape, Hide, Move Silently, Swim
Cross Class: Ride, Search, Spot (too bad you can't get Read Lips, seems natural for a Sonic based Character Class)

Personally, I think its important that every PC has at least one rank in Ride and Swim. Then again, they can do these untrained.

Appraise you can bypass since you got Bard Knowledge.

But Hide and Move Silently! As Class Skills? You should seriously consider them. Disguise for obvious reasons too, CHA bonus, and maybe synergy bonus with Bluff and or Perform (you might be Performing as a Drag Queen, for example).

Climb (and Jump for that matter) would be good for a Roguish Bard, but probably not as key as Hide and Move Silently, not to mention Escape Artist. Plus the bonus for the former two is STR...