D&D 5E Options past 3rd level

[Reynard]

I wonder if 5E's method leads to more abandoned or retired characters as certain players seek new options by completely changing characters.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Also no.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I find multiclassing, feat selection, and multipathing (if you use it) open up plenty of options or choices.

I wouldn't mind seeing prestige classes, but not until tier 3.

 

[Nebulous]

I've started using the book of Talents. It's pretty great, each one is roughly a half feat, and covers a wide range of alternatives. Many of them at higher level replicate 3e prestige classes.

 

[Li Shenron]

I like the streamlined advancement of 5E. There's still plenty of chances for customization (feats, multiclass, range of abilities), but the somewhat linear track keeps away from the 20-level-build antics that annoyed the heck out of me in 3E.

5e classes have more level choices than 3e classes so they are actually less linear, except on skills advancing automatically rather than having the 3e freedom of skill points but that was not really much of a focus in character building.

3e gave out more feats than 5e, smaller power per feat but bigger emphasis on combining them together. But the biggest part of character building was stacking base and prestige classes.

So I don't think the 5e PHB character classes are more linear than 3e PHB classes, it was the availability of hundreds of feats and prestige classes (and people systematically ignoring both the philosophy and the restrictions of multiclassing) which turned linearity into something in the shape of fractals If we had similar amounts of feats and PrCls in 5e we would have the same problems.

 

[Charlaquin]

I have noticed that while 5E has accumulated quite a number of player facing options in the form of races and archetypes, all of those options are built for character creation rather than advancement. In 5e, after 3rd level PCs are pretty much on a linear track as it relates to mechanical development (with the usual caveat that casters have a little more versatility as they go).

Does 5E need more meaningful choices as characters move through the mid to high levels? Should there be a 5E equivalent of Prestige classes, or should archetypes have more choices available as they level? Could or should 5E embrace a model more like PF2 where class and race abilities are represented by an ongoing buffet of ability choices?

5e desperately needs more choices beyond 5th level (except the Warlock, Warlock hits the sweet spot for me). I don’t think prestige classes or PF2/4e style powers every level is the right way to go. Instead, I’d do something very much like, well, the 5e Warlock. Invocations are fantastic, other classes should have similar options.

 

[Charlaquin]

Personally, I think the crowd who wants the deeper customization should turn their attention to Pathfinder - that is the system that thrives on per level customization.

I turned my attention to it when they announced PF2. Followed its development pretty closely. Then in turned out it was still a cumbersome, fiddly, user-unfriendly system. Is a game with streamlined math and interesting character build options really so much to ask??

 

[TwoSix]

I wonder if 5E's method leads to more abandoned or retired characters as certain players seek new options by completely changing characters.

I think that's a consequence of every character build focused version of D&D, starting with 3E. (And maybe Skills&Powers 2E?)

Realisitically, games focused on character building should front-load options and prioritize shorter campaigns.

 

[TwoSix]

I turned my attention to it when they announced PF2. Followed its development pretty closely. Then in turned out it was still a cumbersome, fiddly, user-unfriendly system. Is a game with streamlined math and interesting character build options really so much to ask??

It's difficult to produce a broad menu of options without using some sort of numerical and situational template (gain +X bonus in Y situation or when using Z type of ability), which then complicates the math.

The only other way to do it is to grant additional abilities that provide a broader range of abilities, and are dependent on granting permissions based on language, not math. And it's difficult to generate enough of those options for broad customization.

So yes, if it was easy, someone would have done it already.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Also, more discreet options only encourage Min-Maxing. I enjoy that 5e makes it easy to limit the character-building mini-game.