Orb spells and Mettle

[Hypersmurf]

These examples so far are pretty straightforward. However, didn't someone post an example of a spell where the Fort save is made after several rounds, implying that if you succeeded then, all the damage taken prior to that point would automagically disappear...?

Baleful Polymorph has a Will Partial save made 24 hours after the spell comes into effect.

-Hyp.

 

[Salthorae]

Baleful Polymorph has a Will Partial save made 24 hours after the spell comes into effect.

How would this effect your view of the Mettle ability then Hypersmurf? As I understand your reading of Mettle if a Hexblade were to make his Will save 24 hrs after the spell already affected him (with "Duration: Permanent") that would then end the spell effect, right?

I'm still kinda on the fence for this one, I can see both points of view, but realistically I'm leaning to the "Mettle has no bearing on damage from an orb spell" side...

 

[Hypersmurf]

How would this effect your view of the Mettle ability then Hypersmurf? As I understand your reading of Mettle if a Hexblade were to make his Will save 24 hrs after the spell already affected him (with "Duration: Permanent") that would then end the spell effect, right?

That was what I agreed with in the last thread about Mettle.

-Hyp.

 

[Stalker0]

It will stick to an epic creature with SR 50, but not the hexblade?

I could be a fighter with a reflex save of 50, but I'll still take half damage from a fireball. Its just the way it is. Believe me, Mettle comes up so rarely do not weaken it. I say if the spell could be interpreted in any way to allow mettle to work, it should.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

We had the same this come up for a different reason. Facing undead, the wizard cuts loose with an Orb of Acid. Rolls for damage, then the DM says, "wait a sec, this says there's a fort save, the orb has no effect on undead" and we're all like "..?" It's a Fort save after the damage, Undead and characters with Mettle still take the damage.
If someone had hit a rogue with the orb that has a reflex save, no one would've said anything about him taking all the damage and evading the secondary effect.
All the orb spells say 'you take this much damage, and then save for this secondary effect' maybe not word for word, but the intent is clear.
Undead are not immune to 1d3 acid, or 5d8 acid, why are they suddenly immune to 15d6 acid? :\

 

[hong]

Undead are immune to attacks that have a Fort save, _unless_ it would affect objects. An acid orb would damage objects, so it would damage undead.

 

[bestone]

I think people just have to use thier better judgement in situations like this . Like it may be raw, but really, what dm is gonna let mettle work on a baleful polymorph after a 24hr period. Oh that didnt happen?...riiiight.

imho its hard to argue what it does raw, Opinion doesnt win arguments, But good (and sensical) judgements should always win the day.

 

[Klaus]

Who says the plolymorph doesn't happen? When the Hexblade gets to make his save, it becomes "all or nothing". In this case, he reverts back to his original form.

 

[zeb.hillard]

I have to agree, in a way, with every single post that has been put into this thread. But, (And I know I'm ignoring RAW) in response to the Baleful Polymorph question, I see it like this.

The Hexblade is, as a function of the Class, resistant to spells and spell-like effects (2nd Level Ability, Arcane Resistance). It is a power that doesn't have to be concentrated upon, much like the Paladin's Divine Grace, the Hexblade just shrugs off certain spells with baleful effects due to simply being. If he is Polymorphed into...something other than himself...he eventually gains the change to shrug off the magical effect placed upon him, just like any other. It just takes a little longer.

 

[Li Shenron]

Most spells I can remember (e.g. Disintegrate) with Fortitude Partial are so that if you fail the ST you die, and if you win the ST you only take damage. In that case Mettle negates the damage, no problem because it is actually a lesser effect.

There are probably only a few spells where the Fort ST halves the damamge in a similar way as Reflex ST (Cloudkill), and in this case also no problem, if you beat the ST then you're tough enough so that the Cloudkill doesn't harm you at all.

In cases where the two effects are very different, I might choose to rule it as makes more sense to me. But I don't see any big problem in simply allowing to escape all effects on a successful save. Actually I am not particularly fond of spells with NO save at all (even for partial effects), so Mettle doesn't bother me.

The whole problem with the Orbs is because you can escape the greater orb's effect, but not the lesser orb's effect...

If the spells were named differently ("Vitriolic bullet" and "Corrosive blast") no one would have bothered.