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Orc Blood and Double Axe

Gnome

First Post
Feldspar said:
I agree with the others that in terms of the rules as written Half-Orcs wouldn't get Weapon Familiarity. A shame really, because Half-orcs were the worst race in 3.0 and didn't get improved in any way in 3.5 which means they fell even further behind some classes. I've yet to play in a party that had one. Just compare what they get compared to what a Dwarf gets. We added the following as house rules:

  • Weapon Familiarity: Half-orcs may treat orc double axes as martial weapons, rather than exotic weapons.
  • Weapon Proficiency: Half-orcs receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the greataxe, falchion and javelin as bonus feats. Half-orcs have a natural affinity for the favored weapons of their orcish ancestors.
  • +2 racial bonus on Intimidate and Sense Motive checks: Half-orcs are not readily accepted or trusted amongst either parental race; Half-orcs must quickly learn how to identify allies and discourage challengers in order to survive.

I'll admit that getting weapon proficiencies like this should come from being raised in a specific culture, but ... half-orcs blow and this was an easy way to bring them more in line with the other races.

Javelins are actually simple weapons, not martial.

I like the +2 to intimidate and sense motive. As for the weapons, I'd be tempted to make it one free martial weapon proficiency of the half-orc's choice to take out the cultural aspect, and reflect the fact that half-orcs tend to be more combat oriented in general, regardless of their profession. Maybe limit the choices to a small list of appropriate-seeming weapons (orcish weapons and ones that are good for intimidation purposes).
 

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Shin Okada

Explorer
Take Improved Weapon Familiarity feat (from CW) and now your Half-Orc is proficient in all the exotic weapons which include "Orc" in their name, including Orc Double Axe and Orc Shotput (from Arms and Equipment Guide) . Maybe other supplements have more Orc-related exotic weapons.
 

Kae'Yoss

First Post
Feldspar said:
I agree with the others that in terms of the rules as written Half-Orcs wouldn't get Weapon Familiarity. A shame really, because Half-orcs were the worst race in 3.0 and didn't get improved in any way in 3.5 which means they fell even further behind some classes. I've yet to play in a party that had one. Just compare what they get compared to what a Dwarf gets. We added the following as house rules:

  • Weapon Familiarity: Half-orcs may treat orc double axes as martial weapons, rather than exotic weapons.
  • Weapon Proficiency: Half-orcs receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the greataxe, falchion and javelin as bonus feats. Half-orcs have a natural affinity for the favored weapons of their orcish ancestors.
  • +2 racial bonus on Intimidate and Sense Motive checks: Half-orcs are not readily accepted or trusted amongst either parental race; Half-orcs must quickly learn how to identify allies and discourage challengers in order to survive.

I'll admit that getting weapon proficiencies like this should come from being raised in a specific culture, but ... half-orcs blow and this was an easy way to bring them more in line with the other races.

While we're talking about house rules (I think it's at least partly related to the topic at hand, so please hear me out):

First, I grant all races weapon familiarity, not just dwarves (they really don't need more advantages to other races) and gnomes. Humans get one weapon of their choice.

Next, you're right: half-orcs are a really badly designed race, and the niche they claim for it (an easy race for those who don't want to bother too much with racial features) could be filled with humans quite easily. If I'd redisign them (in truth, I wouldn't really bother, unless I'd allow full-blooded orcs, too), I'd go the way of Midnight: give them differing stats depending on where they were raised. So as orc-raised, he'd get the wf double axe, maybe the proficiencies of your half-orcs. Human-raised ones would get free the any favoured class feature and the any weapon familiarity feature.
 


Sir ThornCrest

First Post
yes and I had a player quote it for me in his own defense

it seemed at the time to be clearly written, and it does say under the half class-they are to be treasted as orcs for spells etc.

He was an exceptionally large half orc 23 str 7 foot fighter, and his weapon was a large double or dire (?name)axe of sundering? His damage was thru the roof, and he sundered just about anything that came across his path....we start and stop campaigns every 2 or 3 months and that player has more than once hinted at playing the Mohg campaign. The name of his mountian of a half ork Mohg.

ThornCrest

Taliesin said:
Under Half-Orc in the players handbook (3.5) it states that orc blood allows Half-Orcs to use race-specific items automatically. Does this extend to Exotic Weapon Proficiency for the Orc Double-Axe? I would think so, but it's not explicitly stated anywhere that I can see, and I could make the argument for it either way...
 


Particle_Man

Explorer
In the DMG it was suggested that gnomes and half-orcs be allowed to take the Scent feat. At least it was in the 3.0 DMG. Maybe that would help?

I played a half-orc fighter once. It was fun, but they are THE one-trick pony. Well, two tricks, with Scent. :)
 

UltimaGabe

First Post
Shin Okada said:
Take Improved Weapon Familiarity feat (from CW) and now your Half-Orc is proficient in all the exotic weapons which include "Orc" in their name, including Orc Double Axe and Orc Shotput (from Arms and Equipment Guide) . Maybe other supplements have more Orc-related exotic weapons.

Actually, it doesn't make the proficient- it lets them treat such weapons as martial weapons. So if they're a Fighter, Barbarian, or Ranger they become proficient with them, but if they're anything else then the weapons are still out of their reach until they multiclass as such.
 

Feldspar

Explorer
KaeYoss said:
First, I grant all races weapon familiarity, not just dwarves (they really don't need more advantages to other races) and gnomes. Humans get one weapon of their choice.

Next, you're right: half-orcs are a really badly designed race, and the niche they claim for it (an easy race for those who don't want to bother too much with racial features) could be filled with humans quite easily. If I'd redisign them (in truth, I wouldn't really bother, unless I'd allow full-blooded orcs, too), I'd go the way of Midnight: give them differing stats depending on where they were raised. So as orc-raised, he'd get the wf double axe, maybe the proficiencies of your half-orcs. Human-raised ones would get free the any favoured class feature and the any weapon familiarity feature.
You'd have to add something extra like those proficiencies for the orc raised ones or else their abilities would be a subset of those raised by humans and that wouldn't be fair.

And as far as filling niches goes, a Dwarf will cover anything anything the human can't. Compare a Dwarf warrior type to a half-Orc: both have Darkvision, both move 20 ft in medium or heavy armor, +2 Con is almost as good as +2 Str and the Dwarf gets a ton of other goodies. We've actually made a tweak to tone down Dwarves a bit in our campaign.

We've modified the PHB weapons table a little, but the only new racial weapon we've added is a Gnome Battlepick thats a 1 handed EWP in the same manner as the Bastard Sword: Battlepick, gnome 30 gp 1d6 1d8 x4 8 lb. Piercing

So, we haven't had to add any familiarities to elves and have found humans to be good enough as is. Here's the houserule section we have for races:
bold text is new
italicized text is commentary on the change

DWARVES
  • +2 Constitution, –2 Dexterity; Dwarves are stout and strong but tend to lack flexibility and grace. I have a harder time picturing a Dwarf as a cat burglar (scaling walls, tumbling, picking pockets) or swashbuckling fencer than I do as war chanting bard, sorcerer, paladin or diplomat. It also takes their combat ability down a needed peg.
  • Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves may treat dwarven waraxes and dwarven urgroshes as martial weapons, rather than exotic weapons. A Strength score of 13+, as per the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat, is required to wield a dwarven waraxe in one hand. You may not have to spend the feat, but wielding a waraxe one handed should remain the mark of a hero.
GNOMES
  • Weapon Familiarity: Gnomes may treat gnome battlepicks and gnome hooked hammers as martial weapons rather than exotic weapons. A Strength score of 13+, as per the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat, is required to wield a gnome battlepick in one hand. You may not have to spend the feat, but wielding a battlepick one handed should remain the mark of a hero.
HALF-ORCS
  • +2 racial bonus on Intimidate and Sense Motive checks: Half-orcs are not readily accepted among any race; Half-orcs must quickly learn how to identify allies and discourage challengers in order to survive.
  • Weapon Affinity: Combining the natural aggressiveness and combative nature of orcs with humankinds adaptability and quick learning has produced a race which takes to weapon play like no other. Half-orcs may choose one of the following:
    • Simple: may consider themselves proficient with all simple weapons
    • Martial: may treat any martial weapon as if it were a simple weapon
    • Exotic: may treat one chosen exotic weapon as if it were a martial weapon

I think this new version takes care of any of the cultural issues and instead bases it on a fusion of racial characteristics. So the single class half-orc wizard would only be able to get benefit from taking the Weapon Affinity: Simple. As a wizard they've only had the most rudimentary combat training, yet they have no problems using such simple weapons as longspears and maces. A thuggish half-orc rogue forgets about trying to fence prettily and instead just bashes his opponent with a greataxe, taking advantage of his natural strength and his choice of Weapon Affinity: Martial. The half-orc ranger who is planning to go with the two weapon fighting track eagerly selects Weapon Affinity: orc double axe.

Players may choose any of the options, regardless of what their first class will be; it just might not be useable. For example, a player could select Weapon Affinity: spiked chain and then start as a thief. They would not be able to use the chain as a rogue, but if they later gained a level in a class which gave proficiency in all martial weapons then they would be able to.

Well besides being quite the thread-jack, what do y'all think?
 


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