[ORC] Vision for one or more ORC systems: convert the entire OGC archives from the start, using a massive team of converters

Yaarel

He Mage
only to now have one of those posters arguing that the contract is not binding on the other parties to it.
The OGL is binding. But it only binds products that use the OGL and its Open Gaming Content.

There is nothing to bind products that have nothing to do with Hasbro-WotC, nor its Open Gaming Content.

When a product doesnt use the OGL, that is the end of the matter.
 

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The OGL is binding. But it only binds products that use the OGL and its Open Gaming Content.

There is nothing to bind products that have nothing to do with Hasbro-WotC, nor its Open Gaming Content.

When a product doesnt use the OGL, that is the end of the matter.
It's fascinating watching you in multiple threads arguing with an actual lawyer about the law. I admire your self-confidence, but question your judgement.
 

mamba

Legend
It's fascinating watching you in multiple threads arguing with an actual lawyer about the law. I admire your self-confidence, but question your judgement.
If this OGL thing has taught me anything, then that you cannot get lawyers to agree on anything, and that one lawyer given one contract can come up with four different ways to interpret it. So some (lawyers and interpretations) are bound to be wrong, that is just unavoidable.

Now whether @pemerton is here, I have no idea, but his interpretation is surprising to me in that I never would have thought of it this way, not that it cannot be read that way ;)
 

If this OGL thing has taught me anything, then that you cannot get lawyers to agree on anything, and that one lawyer given one contract can come up with four different ways to interpret it. So some (lawyers and interpretations) are bound to be wrong, that is just unavoidable.
I suppose. But my point is arguing in an area where you have zero expertise. It's a game where you cannot win. My area of expertise, work-wise, is software engineering: software architecture, software design, that sort of thing. If a non-expert talks to me about this, or tries to contradict me, I entertain them, but it's generally silliness. The points they think they are making, the arguments they are bringing up... they aren't likely even relevant, or meaningful. In conversation, out of politeness, I try to bridge the gap by filling in the bits they are missing or not understanding, but it's tough. Sometimes, there is a legitimate point being made by the layman, for sure. Experts haven't always considered all the things. So I pay attention. But the likelihood that a non-expert has thought of a solution to a problem that the experts in that field have not is beyond vanishingly small. They just don't understand enough about the basics for that to even be realistic.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
But my point is arguing in an area where you have zero expertise.
To be fair, I have expertise in ancient legal texts. These are terse, cryptic, and convoluted. In comparison, the OGL is straightforward and intended for ordinary gamers to understand and comply with.

Modern law is different in some ways. The same need for parsing, understanding technical terms, and logic applies.

Also, the forums are a place for open discussion. This is not a court of law. There is benefit to having diverse points of view reading the same documents from different perspectives.
 

To be fair, I have expertise in ancient legal texts.
That sounds pretty cool. A hobby?
Also, the forums are a place for open discussion. This is not a court of law. There is benefit to having diverse points of view reading the same documents from different perspectives.
Different perspectives are great! But arguing about the nuanced points of a complex field with an expert in that field when you yourself have no expertise in that field... that's the bit that I find unproductive.
 

pemerton

Legend
The OGL is binding. But it only binds products that use the OGL and its Open Gaming Content.

There is nothing to bind products that have nothing to do with Hasbro-WotC, nor its Open Gaming Content.

When a product doesnt use the OGL, that is the end of the matter.
I repeat: what theory or method of contractual interpretation are you applying? You haven't said. You haven't explained why you think section 7 does not operate with its plain meaning.
 

pemerton

Legend
Now whether @pemerton is here, I have no idea, but his interpretation is surprising to me in that I never would have thought of it this way, not that it cannot be read that way ;)
Which interpretation?

If you're talking about section 7, all I'm doing is reading the plain words of the first clause:

You - the licensee, as per section 1 - agree not to Use any Product Identity​

Now Use is a defined term. It is defined to mean "use, reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit, otherwise distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate, and otherwise create Derivative Material of, Open Game Content". How does this definition apply to Product Identity? Product Identity is defined so as to "specifically exclude[] the Open Game Content" and so there is a tension in the interpretation of section 7. Maybe someone can trade on that tension to argue for confining the promise in section 7 in some fashion?

But no one has actually set out such an argument.

If this OGL thing has taught me anything, then that you cannot get lawyers to agree on anything
What disagreement have you seen? As @Steel_Wind posted a week or two ago, there has been overwhelming agreement among the legal experts posting about this matter.
 

pemerton

Legend
There is benefit to having diverse points of view reading the same documents from different perspectives.
You are not actually setting out any readings of the text. For instance, what are you reading in section 7 that confines its operation in the way that you assert?
 


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