OrkJager OOC {Always open for Alts.}

[FreeXenon]

Franky the Little Bardly Dude!

Rock on little Bardly dude!

Sweet, Dude!

I have added the Barrowshire Lore Keeper feat and removed Obscure Lore, saving it for 3rd level. I removed the total of 2 skill points in Knowledge(Arcana and Religion) add put them into Spellcraft. Everything else stayed the same.

I have also added a sblock to my character description which contains the feat and prestige class description.

 

[Voadam]

Just checked over your lorekeeper class, it seems like it is simply a bard with extra abilities and powers and no drawbacks in any area compared to a straight bard. Am I missing something about it?

 

[FreeXenon]

That's pretty much it...
You think it is too much?

I can cite some similar examples:
There are classes that have similar benefits with a small draw back, 2 less skill points, such as the Sublime Chord from the Complete Arcane. The sublime Chord has the following requirements: 5 skills, Bardic Music and 3rd levls spell. The level of entry is 10th however...

The Warforged Juggernaght from Eberron, I think, has 2 feats and race as a requirement and has almost 3 abillities each level and becoming more construct like (which might be deemed a drawback). Definitively better than fighter.

The rquirements are a little more strict here - 6 skills, 2 feats, 2 spells, 3 languages, race
I think that this might be a little strong, but not unduly so. I was thinking of having the level of entry as 7th.

You think maybe a higher level of entry would compensate or something else??

 

[Voadam]

I think the idea in designing prcs is that they should not be better than a core class in absolutely every way without any detriments. There should be something given up, for instance if they are more potent magically then they should be weaker in fighting, or if more competent physically then perhaps lose a level of spell casting (like an eldritch knight does) or skill points. Even wizard prcs give up familiar advancement for their benefits. Going fully 20 levels in a core class is not supposed to be a power sacrifice.

From the lore and magic focus in the description I would have expected the BAB to be dropped to 1/2 as they do not seem as swashbucklerly aggressively offensive as a normal bard would be.

Not a big deal to me though, this is the bard class we are talking about. I just wanted to know if I was missing something obvious. And you did ask for questions and comments .

 

[FreeXenon]

I think the idea in designing prcs is that they should not be better than a core class in absolutely every way without any detriments. There should be something given up, for instance if they are more potent magically then they should be weaker in fighting, or if more competent physically then perhaps lose a level of spell casting (like an eldritch knight does) or skill points. Even wizard prcs give up familiar advancement for their benefits. Going fully 20 levels in a core class is not supposed to be a power sacrifice.

From the lore and magic focus in the description I would have expected the BAB to be dropped to 1/2 as they do not seem as swashbucklerly aggressively offensive as a normal bard would be.

Not a big deal to me though, this is the bard class we are talking about. I just wanted to know if I was missing something obvious. And you did ask for questions and comments .

Dropping the base attack to that of a wizard is a good method of balancing.... Ouch!!
Considering I do believe that the class is potentially strong, reducing the base attack is not a a bad idea.

My original plan for Lore Keeper Spell List was to automatically add the spells to the spells known. I thought that this might be too much, so I had it added to the bard's spell list and they can learn it normally.

Do you think that by reducing the base attack to that of a wizard having the spells added to spells know would be OK and have the class balanced over all, or just reduce the base attack and leave it as is?? Possibly raise the level of entry to 7th?

BTW, thanks for the feed back!

 

[Voadam]

Why does it have healing prereqs and gain regneration? I would have expected more divinations because of the lore focus. Have you seen the creature loresight and object loresight first level spells from the Complete Book of Eldritch Might and Arcana Unearthed? They seem perfectly suited to a magical loremaster bard. Locate object and then creature seems like great bonus spontaneous known spells as well for the concept as you wrote it.

Barrowshire Lore Keepers are dedicated to the pursuit and use of knowledge. The shirefolk that walk this path typically pick a subject area to specialize and then do everything they can to learn as much about it as possible. Often this involves trying to find out some fact or item of significance that is hidden away in ruins or in some estate. Their pursuit and understanding of their subject area(s) gives them unique insight into the world and the way that it works.

Lore Keepers are most often found in the company of others that are helping them to acquire knowledge or artifacts of significance to their lore. Lore Keepers know that they cannot be good at everything and that they need help. Help from those that can heal, sneak, fight and other things that they cannot. They use their bardic music abilities, knowledge, and spells to help their companions. Their more aggressive spell list and understanding greatly helps their chance of survival.

 

[FreeXenon]

I do not have The Book of Eldritch Might. I do have Arcana Unearthed, but I have not really looked at it since I bought. BTW, from what I ahve seen of it I think it rocks!

The healing based prerequisite is to ensure they have spells that will help other party members to survive. To engraine a team focus. Sure a Bard could use the spells to just heal themselves and say screw the party, but that is not the focus of the class. Working with allies to gain knowledge. Allies are no good to you dead. Regeneration is there because it does fit the bard Mode of operation of healing/lore/enchantment. I picked regeneration because it is a spell that is not often used (atleast in my experience) Clerics by that level have access to Heal. What elses do you need?? How often do party members lose limbs or break bones??

This gives them more healing ability without infringing too much on the clerics domain.

This a quote from me from the thread I started to ask for advice on this prestige class. Lord Morte had a question about the focus of the spell list. My response follows:

You are right it is kind of a grab bag. The theme is kind of adventurer/knowledge/book related. It is supposed to give the Bard spell list a little more of an edge and versatility with out infringing on a primary casters' role. Glyph based protection/trap/damage spells - little used spells (atleast in my experience). Mage Armor - protection. Two Information/Knowledge spells, and a healing spell, which by this level the cleric already has heal, so Regenerate sees little use (again in my experience).

I am giving them some mostly little used spells to give them additional versatility without infringing. Prying Eyes, Vision, and Regenerate are inline with the existing Bard motif of information and healing. Giving them the Heal which is actually a level lower would be seriously broken and greatly infringe on the clerics domain.

He also queastion the usefullness of Mage Armor and this was my response:

This is for a 3.5e game and yes, you are right, why have Mage Armor when you can wear a Mithril Shirt. There may always be times when you may not be able to wear armor, or when your allies or people that you are protecting do not have armor. (You also free up your arcane caster from having to memorize it) This does give a core wizard spell but at a very late level because if they want it they will have to switch it out at 8th level or higher to get it. Its usefullness will be limited unless there is good teamwork and planning from the party.

I am still curious about your thoughts on my previous post regarding reducing th base attack and the Lore Keepers Spell List.

 

[Voadam]

I think that is enough but I'll direct further analysis comments to that thread.

 

[reddist]

So... where are we now? Top of the third round of combat, yes? Or are we still waiting on the next batch of Orc attacks?

I mean, it'd be silly if I'm waiting on ME to go and I just don't realize it...

-Reddist

 

[Harvey]

I believe we have all went on the second round and we are waiting for the orcs. Thank goodness some of us hit this time