OSR vs OSE

[GothmogIV]

Friends, is OSR a catch all for games of a certain type (Old School Renaissance) vs. OSE which is a specific game system (Old School Essentials)? I have seen them used interchangeably, which is confusing. Frog God Games has game materials that are labelled "OSR," but I am not sure what--if any--system an "OSR" game is, specifically. Thanks in advance!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Friends, is OSR a catch all for games of a certain type (Old School Renaissance) vs. OSE which is a specific game system (Old School Essentials)?

Yes. OSR's meaning is a little nebulous ("R" can be for "Revival" or "Renaissance" or occasionally other words), but it's more a genre of game design, tone or both. It encompasses retroclones like OSE but also (in most gamers' minds) games like Shadowdark and Troika, which are not.

Old School Essentials is a specific game, reorganizing and clarifying Basic D&D.

I have seen them used interchangeably, which is confusing. Frog God Games has game materials that are labelled "OSR," but I am not sure what--if any--system an "OSR" game is, specifically.

Necromancer/Frog God used to have a strong relationship with Labyrinth Lord Swords & Wizardry (an OD&D clone) and most of their "OSR" games were presumably written for that.

The good news is that most OSR is compatible with BD&D (which is one of the reasons "OSE" sometimes gets used interchangeably for "OSR").

If you are Expeditious Retreat Press, producing 1E AD&D adventures, and I'm using Shadowdark, I can still pick up your adventure and run it with little to no conversion required, because most OSR games are extremely similar.

The only exception is when an OSR game is trying to emulate a completely different game, like Traveller, but nowadays, very few "OSR" games are doing that and the games that do tend to clearly label themselves differently. You will just have a few grognards (who are everywhere in OSR land) using the "OSR" label for non-D&D-inspired games.

 

[GothmogIV]

Thank you! I figured it was something along those lines. I am using Dungeon Crawl Classics these days (along with Dragonbane) so I'm always trying to figure out what I can use and how difficult it will be to convert.

 

[Retreater]

Necromancer/Frog God used to have a strong relationship with Labyrinth Lord (an OD&D clone) and most of their "OSR" games were presumably written for that.

I believe you're thinking of Swords & Wizardry, which they published and printed for their partner (and editor) Matt Finch until he left the company a couple years ago to start Mythmere games.
Prior to that (and I think it wasn't a happy parting), everything was clearly stamped, whether for 5e, PF, or S&W.
To my knowledge, they've never published for Labyrinth Lord (but Greg Gillespie of Barrowmaze fame did).

 

[Simon Miles]

Yes. OSR's meaning is a little nebulous ("R" can be for "Revival" or "Renaissance" or occasionally other words), but it's more a genre of game design, tone or both. It encompasses retroclones like OSE but also (in most gamers' minds) games like Shadowdark and Troika, which are not.

Old School Essentials is a specific game, reorganizing and clarifying Basic D&D.

Necromancer/Frog God used to have a strong relationship with Labyrinth Lord (an OD&D clone) and most of their "OSR" games were presumably written for that.

The good news is that most OSR is compatible with BD&D (which is one of the reasons "OSE" sometimes gets used interchangeably for "OSR").

If you are Expeditious Retreat Press, producing 1E AD&D adventures, and I'm using Shadowdark, I can still pick up your adventure and run it with little to no conversion required, because most OSR games are extremely similar.

The only exception is when an OSR game is trying to emulate a completely different game, like Traveller, but nowadays, very few "OSR" games are doing that and the games that do tend to clearly label themselves differently. You will just have a few grognards (who are everywhere in OSR land) using the "OSR" label for non-D&D-inspired games.

 

[Simon Miles]

Friends, is OSR a catch all for games of a certain type (Old School Renaissance) vs. OSE which is a specific game system (Old School Essentials)? I have seen them used interchangeably, which is confusing. Frog God Games has game materials that are labelled "OSR," but I am not sure what--if any--system an "OSR" game is, specifically. Thanks in advance!

The Old School Essentials (OSE) is a specific game based on Basic/Expert D&D but they also do a version called OSE Advanced which is closer to 1st Edition AD&D. As Whizbang Dustyboots says, the OSR term is widely used to refer to any game based on AD&D or BECMI D&D; that is they generally have 6 stats, hit points and classes and/or races, ascending or descending Armour Class and attack rolls on d20. This usually means that anything written for any OSR will usually work with any other OSR or D&D with little or no adjustments. Our own products were written originally for OSRIC but then to include OSE Advanced (which only included ascending armour class) but are generally completely good for all the OSRs I have seen and the original 1st and 2nd Edition AD&D with little or no changes. It's a great community to be a part of and there are LOADS of great stuff out there.
Simon Miles
www.dunrominuniversitypress.co.uk

 

[Reynard]

Necromancer/Frog God used to have a strong relationship with Labyrinth Lord (an OD&D clone) a

For clarity, Labyrinth lord was B/X clone, not an OD&D clone and has been pretty much replaced by OSE in most gamers' hearts. There is a second edition on the way, though.

 

[Nikosandros]

Necromancer/Frog God used to have a strong relationship with Labyrinth Lord (an OD&D clone) and most of their "OSR" games were presumably written for that.

They used to publish Swords and Wizardy, which is an OD&D clone. Now that S&W is independent again, FGG has switched to supporting OSE.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Sorry, got my former OSR darlings mixed up. Original post updated.

 

[Mannahnin]

The Old School Essentials (OSE) is a specific game based on Basic/Expert D&D but they also do a version called OSE Advanced which is closer to 1st Edition AD&D.

I might opine that OSE Advanced, rather than being closer to 1st edition AD&D, replicates AD&D content/ideas (that is, expanded classes, spells, magic items, and monsters), but mechanically converts them to the simpler, somewhat less powerful B/X rules framework. It also adds a few mechanical options from AD&D (split race & class, and spell acquisition, for two examples), again, in simplified and clarified forms.

Which IS, for the record, the way a lot of folks who stated with B/X, Holmes Basic, or BECMI but couldn't quite parse the AD&D rulebooks actually played AD&D. Kind of kludging them together and simplifying rather than figuring out (say) the intricacies of AD&D initiative rules and so forth.