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[OT for the gun nuts] FN Herstal F2000
- Thread starter hong
- Start date
trancejeremy
Adventurer
Well, no.
It's pretty much a multi-purpose assault rifle (the grenade launcher is actually optional - it's even missing in the photo of the guy firing it), while the OICW is pretty much a support weapon (the whole point is the grenade launcher, the rifle part is actually just a modified HK36). The grenades in the OICW are 20mm and can explode in a variety of different ways (they're programmable). The ones in the F2000 are just regular 40mm nato grenades.
Both have fancy fire control systems, but the OICW is a lot more complex, because it had a completely new type of ammo. This seems to just improve the accuracy of normal grenades.
This is actually more of Europes version of the Land Warrior M4
It's pretty much a multi-purpose assault rifle (the grenade launcher is actually optional - it's even missing in the photo of the guy firing it), while the OICW is pretty much a support weapon (the whole point is the grenade launcher, the rifle part is actually just a modified HK36). The grenades in the OICW are 20mm and can explode in a variety of different ways (they're programmable). The ones in the F2000 are just regular 40mm nato grenades.
Both have fancy fire control systems, but the OICW is a lot more complex, because it had a completely new type of ammo. This seems to just improve the accuracy of normal grenades.
This is actually more of Europes version of the Land Warrior M4
MythandLore
First Post
trancejeremy is right, (I'll just ad a little to what he said)
No, the FN F2000 is not like a OICW.
The FN (Fabrique Nationale - Belgium) Herstal F2000 is a bullpup (magazine behind the grip) design.
The Alliant (Alliant Techsystems - Alliant, US company, is making it jointly with Heckler & Koch, a Germany company, so it really is sort of European anyway even though it is being made for the US) SABRE or OICW (Objective Individual Combat Weapon) is based off of H&K's G36 series rifle, which has it's magazine in the front of the grip.
The FN F2000 has much more in common with Steyr's (Steyr-Mannlicher AG company of Austria) AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle), IMI's (Israel Military Industries) Tavor TAR-21, St-Etienne Arms Factory's (a member of the French government owned GIAT concern) FAMAS (Fusil d'Assaut de la Manufacture d'Armes de St-Etienne) and Enfield's (Enfield Small Arms Factory - British) L85A1, because of it's bullpup design.
The FN F2000 also like pretty much every other assault rifle (but the OICW) uses a single loading 40mm grenade launcher (if added), like the M203 Grenade Launcher for the M-16 or HK79 (the German M203) or the AG36 (AG - Anbaugranatwerfer - "attached grenade launcher") for the G36, so if you fire once you have to reload before firing again.
The OICW uses a six shot (bullpup) magazine of 20mm Grenades (though it's not the only gun to use 20mm explosive rounds - most of the others are anti-material rifles that are not programmable to my knowledge) so it can fire again and again and again and again...
The grenades are computer control detonated and laser guided so they can explode on impact, behind a target, in front of a target, or even delay after impact.
The ability to detonate a explosive mid-air past a wall (effectively letting it fire around corners) along with it's being able to fire many explosive rounds in rapid succession is what gave it the 5-1 kill ratio need by the US testing.
The main design element of the F2000 is it's modular design for a compact controlled size (and it's very nice for this reason).
Many of the things like the electronic scopes and the grenade launcher are made to be easy added or taken off depending on the situation, they are part of it not an after thought piece.
So if you don't really need a piece you don't need the extra weight (it's also cheaper if you don't need the extra parts), also the design (the handles most of all) take alot from the compact FN P90 design (my favorite gun) which is very ergonomically made for a high amount of control in a compact automatic weapon.
Most bullpup designs are not ambidextrous but the F2000 is because it's based off the P90.
No, the FN F2000 is not like a OICW.
The FN (Fabrique Nationale - Belgium) Herstal F2000 is a bullpup (magazine behind the grip) design.
The Alliant (Alliant Techsystems - Alliant, US company, is making it jointly with Heckler & Koch, a Germany company, so it really is sort of European anyway even though it is being made for the US) SABRE or OICW (Objective Individual Combat Weapon) is based off of H&K's G36 series rifle, which has it's magazine in the front of the grip.
The FN F2000 has much more in common with Steyr's (Steyr-Mannlicher AG company of Austria) AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle), IMI's (Israel Military Industries) Tavor TAR-21, St-Etienne Arms Factory's (a member of the French government owned GIAT concern) FAMAS (Fusil d'Assaut de la Manufacture d'Armes de St-Etienne) and Enfield's (Enfield Small Arms Factory - British) L85A1, because of it's bullpup design.
The FN F2000 also like pretty much every other assault rifle (but the OICW) uses a single loading 40mm grenade launcher (if added), like the M203 Grenade Launcher for the M-16 or HK79 (the German M203) or the AG36 (AG - Anbaugranatwerfer - "attached grenade launcher") for the G36, so if you fire once you have to reload before firing again.
The OICW uses a six shot (bullpup) magazine of 20mm Grenades (though it's not the only gun to use 20mm explosive rounds - most of the others are anti-material rifles that are not programmable to my knowledge) so it can fire again and again and again and again...
The grenades are computer control detonated and laser guided so they can explode on impact, behind a target, in front of a target, or even delay after impact.
The ability to detonate a explosive mid-air past a wall (effectively letting it fire around corners) along with it's being able to fire many explosive rounds in rapid succession is what gave it the 5-1 kill ratio need by the US testing.
The main design element of the F2000 is it's modular design for a compact controlled size (and it's very nice for this reason).
Many of the things like the electronic scopes and the grenade launcher are made to be easy added or taken off depending on the situation, they are part of it not an after thought piece.
So if you don't really need a piece you don't need the extra weight (it's also cheaper if you don't need the extra parts), also the design (the handles most of all) take alot from the compact FN P90 design (my favorite gun) which is very ergonomically made for a high amount of control in a compact automatic weapon.
Most bullpup designs are not ambidextrous but the F2000 is because it's based off the P90.
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You people scare me. 
Okay, if not a European OICW, it's definitely a European pulse rifle, minus the digital ammo counter.
Speaking of pulse rifles, Google proves again to be my friend:
http://home.pressroom.com/philips/pulser/printro.htm
Okay, if not a European OICW, it's definitely a European pulse rifle, minus the digital ammo counter.
Speaking of pulse rifles, Google proves again to be my friend:
http://home.pressroom.com/philips/pulser/printro.htm
The French are designing their equivalent of the OICW called the PAPOP (PolyArme POlyProjectiles). It's a 5.56mm rifle combined with a 35mm grenade launcher fed by a 3-round tube magazine. The grenades can be programmed for standard bursts or proximity-fused lateral bursts for engaging targets behind cover.
MythandLore
First Post
The Guns scare me...hong said:You people scare me.
Yeah, GIAT is making it (based on the FAMAS) and what you said, I've only seen a few (very few - like 6) photos of it and I hear it weighs (at 7 kilograms loaded) a little more then the OICW, that's about the extent of it.keb said:
If you know of a site with any info on it could you point me to it.
It seems the French think you need a 35mm Grenade, I donno, I like the 20mm better myself, more shots better ballistics and such, not that I like the OICW mind you (though I did test for it
)I think they are all to big, bulky and heavy.
I'll take the P-90 thank you!
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MythandLore said:
There's a PDF file at www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/arms/Trends_arms_dev-e.PDF. It's mostly about arms control, but there's a pretty good description of the PAPOP on page 26.
web.archive.org/web/20010418230554/http://www.metronet.com/~madrabit/small.htm is one person's view on the OICW, but there is also some information on OCSW and PAPOP. (Odd - the board tacked on "test.cyberstreet.com/" to the front of the URL when I clicked the link. Just delete the part in quotes and you'll get to the site.)
You can also put "PAPOP" or "PAPOP" + 35mm into Google. Be prepared to sort through a lot of game sites.
I was the Dragunov Sniper Rifle.
MythandLore
First Post
Thanks I haven't seen that site before, though it seems -like most sites- to have the same info posted other places.keb said:
Yeah I already had that, for his take on anti-material rifles and the OCSW, it' like 3 years old though.keb said:
Thank you, I bet, thats why I figured I'd ask instead of wasting my time.keb said:You can also put "PAPOP" or "PAPOP" + 35mm into Google. Be prepared to sort through a lot of game sites.
Incidentally, a couple of new 40mm automatic grenade launchers have been developed. The interesting thing is that air-burst 40mm ammunition is also being designed for them along with electronic fire control systems, apparently allowing them to match the 25mm OCSW.
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/corrections.html
(Scroll down to "Page 115 & 199:")
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/corrections.html
(Scroll down to "Page 115 & 199:")
MythandLore
First Post
Wow, another cool site.keb said:
The photos of the ammuntion are great.
I don't know about the 40mm though, like I said, the ballistics are bad on a 40, 20s are bad enough and with the advanced HEs they have now days I don't think a programable 40mm is that great a thing because they need it to be accurate for it to be effective for what they are trying to do, otherwise they may as well leave it the way it is, it's alot cheaper without all the extra bells and wistles and about as effective.
I don't know if you've seen these before but here are a few links to some grenade launchers.
The video of the hk gmg and the south african 6 shot are really worth seeing if you haven't before.
http://www.hkpro.com/gmw.htm
http://www.hkpro.com/gmg.htm
http://www.milkor.co.za/products/mglmain.htm
There are a bunch of videos on the milkor site.
I like the design, easy to use/clean/etc, very simple, basic and cheap but will get the job done, none of the worring about a jam or electronic malfuntion.
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