[OT] I'm Going To Enlist In The Navy

[LGodamus]

My only addition to this talk is this,.......... Do not rush this decision , do not let your recruiter push you. My advice is research as much as you can then give yourself at least a month to decide....do not be hasty with a decision of this magnitude,or you will regret it.

 

[hong]

I'm not going to close this just yet, but that's only because I know that we're not going to discuss Panama, terrorist attacks on military barracks or ships, and the relative merits of the US going to any military action we've taken over the past forever.

See, if everyone had just started talking about the Village People like I said, NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED.


Hong "never hijacks a thread" Ooi

 

[Mistwell]

I'll remain silent on the controversial issues from here on out (Paladin, you got the last word...another time perhaps?).

It seriously sounds to me like this recruiter is trying to railroad you into joining quick. People were saying earlier that he WOULD want to downplay ROTC because officer recruiting goes through a different recruiter, and he would then lose you for his quota. It would be a sure sign to me to investigate ROTC further before committing to anything. Maybe you should talk to an officer recruiter (if that is the correct term)? In addition, why make a hasty decision on your MOS? From what I can tell, this is the field you will be going into - why wouldn't you want to carefully investigate all the options and make a thoughtful, longer term decision about it?

 

[Numion]

See, if everyone had just started talking about the Village People like I said, NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED.


Hong "never hijacks a thread" Ooi

About the village people:

You have there a policeman, a construction worker, a cowboy, a soldier and an indian, ok? But who the heck is the dude in the leather outfit?

 

[Mistwell]

About the village people:

You have there a policeman, a construction worker, a cowboy, a soldier and an indian, ok? But who the heck is the dude in the leather outfit?

I thought they were all wearing leather?

This reminds me of a joke I thought was hilarious in Junior High. The Junior High across the street was a religious school, and the girls all wore the same green uniform. We would whistle at them as they ran by during PE, yelling "Dude, check out the hot one in the green!" I'm pretty sure the girls totally ignored us for the idiots we were, but boy did we think that was funny...

 

[Aeris Winterood]

Navy....

I spent almost 10 years in the Navy. I was able to see 24 different countries, multitudes of cultures and played in massive roleplaying campaigns. All of my duty stations had hoards of gamers. When you are at sea for 6 months, it pays to have a good hobby such as RPGing.

It can be a good catalyst for your future. Most service time is as good as you make it. Not many people my age have done or seen the things I have, and I have many memories and friends to be proud of.

And, oh yeah, the Navy is the most "un"military of the services. We are a laid back crowd for the most part.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

It seriously sounds to me like this recruiter is trying to railroad you into joining quick. People were saying earlier that he WOULD want to downplay ROTC because officer recruiting goes through a different recruiter, and he would then lose you for his quota

Sad to say, Mistwell is right here. Though it's not called "railroading", it's called sales. The recruiter has a mission: put people in the Navy. He also has a deadline -- the end of the month (which falls on the last Monday of the month for most services). All things being equal, he will try to close the deal before the end of the month. The best ones will do this by meeting your needs with one of their programs -- but it's their job to help (maybe push) you to make a decision.

Absolutely talk it over with your folks first, don't rush to a decision -- but remember you eventually must make some sort of decision.

Recruiters tend not to push commisioned officer programs, because (1) they're not officers themselves, (2) they know less about becoming an officer, (3) there are very few people who, off the street, would qualify for an officer program, (4) if someone qualifies for an officer program, it takes a long time to process them (90 days or longer) -- and their mission is for a contract this month. Not really their fault, the system is not structured for them to do officer recruitment.

There are four basic ways to become an officer, but before I do that, I want to make sure you know the diffreences between the types of officers and what they do. (Bear with me if you know this stuff, some people following along may not).

If this was a corporation, you have workers (the people who get the work done), mid-level managers (who handle workers directly, or manage small teams of workers), and you have executives (who make policy, and high level, hard decisions). You might also have some technical specialists, who provide advice in technical fields.

The military has a similar organization: Enlisted members (grades E1-E4) are the workers. There's a lot of them, and they have specific jobs (MOS's). They don't make decisions -- they get the job dones. The mid-level managers are most non-commissioned officers (E5-E8) and the junior commissioned officers (O1-O3). The NCOs are promoted from the ranks, and focus on individual skills and training, working directly with the individual enlisted members to ensure the work gets done. They lead and make decisions for small teams. Commissioned officers are responsible for the functions of collective organizations -- teams of enlisted members, headed by NCOs. They lead larger teams, but work though other junior officers and NCOs to get the job done. The executives are the highest level NCOs and senior officers (E9, O4-O10). They lead higher level teams, make policy, work on staffs, etc. -- and are a long way from the individual enlisted man. Technical specialists are warrant officers, who tend to have a very broad knowledge of a very specialized field (Warrant officers in the Army also fly helicopters, in addition to the technical-specialist warrants).

So, you have three types of officers (though usually when people say "officer" they mean commissioned officers):

Non-commissioned officers (enlisted, work with individuals, fairly narrow knowledge range -- specialists)
Commisioned officers (focus on the collective, wide range of limited knowledge -- generalists)
Warrant officers -- technical specialists

Different duties and responsibilities. Some people are better suited to be one type or other, based on the different duties and responsibilities (and some people are not suited to be any type of officer at all). As the saying goes: ranks has its privileges (RHIP), but rank also has its responsibilities (RHIR). If you're not comfortable with the idea of making life-or-death decisions for other people, you don't want to be an officer.

That said, there are basically four ways of becoming a commissioned officer:

1. Go to a service academy (West Point, Annapolis). This requires a nomination, application, acceptance (about 1 in 10 accepted), and four years of college and military training.

2. Go through four years of ROTC. This involves taking an ROTC class along with regular college classes, and once you get your degree, you get commissioned. You do weekend and summer training during the program. There are scholarships available for ROTC, some competed for nationally, and some that individual colleges control. Some services also have ROTC scholarships set aside for enlisted members who want to become officers (the Army calls this Green-to-Gold). They are discharged from the service to attend college and ROTC, to return to active duty once commissioned.

3. Go to Officer Candidate School (OCS, or Offficer Training School for the USAF). For Federal programs, right off the street, this requires you to already have a four-year degree. If you're accepted, you're usually sent through the service's basic training, then to OCS, which is 16 weeks of the worst hell imaginable (compress 4 years of academy training into 16 weeks and you get the idea. Go see "An Officer and a Gentleman"). Usually, though, the requirements for entry if you are already enlisted are slightly lower -- right now in the Army, an enlisted soldier with a good record, at least two years of active duty, and 90 semester hours of college can apply for OCS.

4. Get direct commisioned. Only applies for doctors, laywers, chaplains, and similar professionals.

The unifying theme, though, is education. You have to have a college degree (For the in-service OCS grads -- they have to get a degree if they don't have one before making O3). If college is not working out for you -- you don't have the discipline right now, for example -- then frankly, I'd recommend an enlistment program. It takes a lot of dedication, discipline, and sacrifice to become an officer -- you have to want that more than anything else.

Most warrant officers are promoted from the enlisted ranks, and serve in a similar technical field to their enlisted MOS. The one exception that I know of are Army helicopter pilots, who can be enlisted directly off the street -- although it is a fairly lengthy process involving a flight aptitude test, a flight physical, and an interview by a panel of officers.

From what you've said:

- It sounds like college is not an option for you right now (this means no ROTC).

- If you're poor at/severely dislike math, a Nuke program is probably not for you (although I'll let the Nucs here make that recommendation)

- If college might still be in the picture, consider the reserves or Guard. You'll go away for a number of months for training, whichmight give you enough time to get your head straight (but I've found a lot of folks who do this decide they want to go active anyway, and it can be tough to get released from a reserve unit ot go active).

- If length of service is an issue, other services offer 2-year enlistments.

What are your apptitudes or interests, beyond gaming? We know math-dislike and music-little experience. WHat about foreign language? There are some great linguist programs. Electronics? Computers? Like working with your hands?

 

[Cedric]

As for the Math in the nuke program...it wasn't that bad. It gets up to Algebra and some low level calculus/trig. The physics, which will mostly all be new to you, is usually the tougher part.

If you want to go military but are worried about being "In Harm's War" ...nuke is also a good choice.

First, you'll be in school for 2 years...so everything could die down by then.

Second, once you are out, you are going to either a Submarine or an Aircraft Carrier...in both places...and especially in a Sub...you are almost untouchable.

Very few things threaten a U.S. Fast Attack or Ballistic Missile Submarine these days.

Cedric

 

[Azure Trance]

Olgar, thanks for the comprehensive explanation of how officers are selected. May I ask what branch / rank you are? As for your questions:

What are your apptitudes or interests, beyond gaming? We know math-dislike and music-little experience. WHat about foreign language? There are some great linguist programs. Electronics? Computers? Like working with your hands?

In college my main areas of interest were History, Politics, and Business. I like being a technogeek, doing things like upgrading my computer and getting electronic widgets, but never delved into the parts which constituate them.

 

[SemperJase]

Isn't the Airforce the branch of the military for people who really don't want to be in the military?