[OT] sociology paper- how does mainstream society view Gamers

[Enkhidu]

Wow!

Lots of good comments so far - let's see if I can continue the trend...

To start let me tell you what perspective I'm coming from. I am a not-quite-an-old-fogey-but-still-remember-waiting-for-Unearthed-Arcana 1st Ed D&D gamer (can it really be going on 2 decades? Yes it can). I've played (heavily) all three forms of D&D, in a variety of settings, and have also branched out to play other systems (Rolemaster, GURPS, and MERP to name a few) and other genres (numerous supers games, the White Wolf lines, Cyberpunk, Paranoia, and even a bit of LARP). So one could say I have a varied background. Not as varied as some, but slightly more than many.

In that time I've seen others view the hobby in many different, ad evolving, ways. When I started, it was right about the time the book and movie "Mazes and Monsters," with all the misinformation that brought (Sonar?!? Who the heck uses sonar?!?). And then (circa '85) Hickman and Weiss catapulted gaming into the limelight with a little trilogy about Dragons and Lances. The hobby once again came under scrutiny (cross promotion with fiction on the New York Times bestseller's list will do that). Then TSR started recruiting new gamers - any other comic collectors remember the giant advertising campaigns in the mid to late 80's for the Forotten Realms supplements? This combination - leading up to the release of D&D's 2nd Ed - served to catagorize gaming as a hobby more than anything else, which put it in the same catagory as people who collect comics, stamps, or model trains.

Notice that I haven't actually addressed other gaming systems yet. The reason for that is that D&D has been, and perhaps always will be the most recognized name in gaming, and at this point very few people outside of the gaming community even knew some of these systems existed.

Now where was I?

Ah yes - gaming as a hobby.

With gaming being catagorized as a hobby, it began becoming more mainstream. In the late 80's, TSR began publishing the ubiquitous Forgotten Realms books, and in each paperback was a mention of- and more often a full fledged advertisement for - gaming material. When someone would see me reading a TSR published book, they would simply say, "Oh, one of those D&D books? Tell me how it is." And these comments were from people who had never played, barely knew what the game was about, etc.

In the 90's, reactions from the people around me got, if anything, more tolerant. Family and friends were - at first - a little concerned (comes from growing up in a fundalmentalist family). But when they realized that it actually took less time than, say, Fantasy Football, they ceased to be worried. Especially when they realized that I as a lot less fanatic about it too. In movies and TV, references to gaming became more common (though still very "geeky" in their connotations). White Wolf's line of World of Darkness games and supplements became popular in the gaming community (and Spelling actually tried to cash in on the concept with a Vampire themed prime time show).

Which brings us just about to present, where Wizards makes and airs Magic the Gathering commercials during prime time TV, where LARPing communities do volunteer work, and where you can pick up D&D products at your local Electronics Boutique.

Well that turned out to be longer than I though it would...

Just my $0.37, adjusted for inflation.

 

[chilibean]

I'm suprised that no one has mentioned the horrible and detestible cartoon that played on Saturday mornings a long time ago. It just makes me cringe to remember that. If anything is going to give something bad PR, a TV show like that would do it. The D&D movie wasn't quite as bad, but still needs to have all the reels of the film collected and melted into slag.

People's views of gamers are going to be formed one of 3 ways: first hand knowledge/experience, non-first hand knowledge/experience, or some combination of the two. My guess is that people who first learn about gaming via first hand knowledge (has a friend who games and told them about it, etc...) tend to view it more favorably than those who first learned of it from the news media.

As much as people hate to admit it, people are sheep. They follow the crowd and tend to believe what is told to them. If they accept as valid what is told to them (all to often) then they accept it as truth and internalize it as a fact. Later if challenged on this "fact", they have already made a commitment to one belief set, and would have to admit to themselves they were duped (unpleasant) if they changed their minds. So they tend to defend their original position, even though it was made based on only 1 side of the story. I'm not trying to say this happens exclusively and rigidly, but it's more of a trend. Another subconscious motivating factor is that everyone wants to be accepted (humans are social creatures and naturally want to fit in). If someone feels that "everyone" thinks gamers are "bad", they will feel pressured to come think the same way. Not that others will be actively pressuring them very often, but rather as a subtle self-applied pressure to conform.

Now to relate this back to the topic, if someone hears from their parents that gamers are devil worshipers, and they see stories on the evening news confirming it, and they feel the disapproving looks from other people when they hear the words mentioned, and hear a sermon at church espousing the evils of gaming, I think they will tend to follow the crowd and disapprove of gamers and gaming. Likewise, if you have a bunch of friends who all play D&D, and your parents never said boo or raised an eyebrow when you told them your new friend Johnny invited you to a D&D party, then you probably aren't going to have a very negative opinion even if you never went to the D&D game. Since more people have probably heard of gaming in a negative light than in a positive one, I think that is the reason that society views gaming negatively.

But these are just my 2 cents worth.


Anyone remember the line from Men in Black where Will Smith asks, "Why the big secret? People are smart, they can handle it."

What was the answer?

"A PERSON is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

One of the few times Hollywood hit the nail on the head ....

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. And remember, by definition, 50% of the population has a below average intelligence.

 

[Sodalis]

I am doing some outside research on the history of gaming, and its many intricacies... as with any other hobby, there are many layers to the game.

The most interesting is that there are specific red flags, or markers in personality traits that are signals as to people who are predisposed to gaming:

1) military history/ war gaming
2) fantasy literature
3) knowledge of real-world mythology
4) knowledge of social sciences
5) knowledge of physical sciences
6) knowledge of real-world mysticism

Out of the six, except for real world mysticism, I would say that the list encompasses my interests and hobbies quite nicely.

edit: I should clarify how each thing is personal to me...
1) i liked medieval warfare. not really into the modern nuke'em tactic, or the smart bombs, but more of the strategic management of foot soldiers and mass battles. China's expertise.
2) been reading it since I was five...
3) greek/ roman are my favorite, but norse is also very high on the list. I like the way man uses gods to explain things that they had no reason of explaination. This is also very prevelant in Chinese and Japanese cultures.
4) i am a sociology major. I like to study how a "people" think. I can care less abotu how a person thinks, cause like chilibean said, "A PERSON is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it." - brilliant observation. A person may have his head on straight, but rarely does he ever follow his mind, when the mass is against him...
5) By the age of ten, i knew all the bones in body (save the vertebrate). By 12, I was studying Gray's Anatomy. During High School, I took supplementary biology classes at the community college cause the HS ones werent teaching me enough. In college, I took all the biology courses available- but when it started to get involved in biochemistry- i had to swap majors.
6) not my thing... always thought mystics were a little (ironically) weird.


How does it fare up to your interests and personality? you dont have to go into any detail. i just wanted to show you that even something like gaming has had an in depth study done on it... and it is very interesting.

Oh yeah, and there are a lot of interviews with the omoinous Gary Gygax telling of his pre-DND days, when he and his friends would gather around the coffee table and play wargames, using mystic races and classes derived from novels like LOTR.

 

[Zander]

Hello Sodalis,

If you haven't already, you should check out the book Shared Fantasy: Role-Playing Games as Social Worlds by Gary Alan Fine. It's a sociological/ethnographic study of RPGers in the late 1970's.

You should also check out the books/papers by Dr Kurt Lancaster, http://www.dawn-joy.com/orion/kurt/ and http://www.dawn-joy.com/orion/kurt/publications.htm .

Lastly, I recommend contacting CAR-PGa (Committee for the Advancement of Role-Playing Games), the largest international RPG advocacy group. CAR-PGa has what is probably the most comprehensive archive of positive and negative material about gamers anywhere. CAR-PGa is based in Texas. The unofficial site is at http://www.theescapist.com/carpga.htm .

Can I obtain a copy of your paper when it's done? I'd very much like to read it and add it to CAR-PGa's files.

Good luck with your paper!

Zander
CAR-PGa UK National Coordinator

PS Please don't hesitate to drop me a line if you like. Just make sure you put "RPG study" or something similar in the subject line. I have a PhD in sociology and a BA and MS in (social) psychology. So I might be able to help.

 

[Alyx]

My first experience with the Totally Against person was two summers ago. In my youthful ignorance (now, of course, I am all grown up and all-knowing; unconquerable, and indomitable) I let a younger friend borrow one of my 2nd edition books. You can see where this is going; his parents, who have ancient ties with my own, turned out to be religious conservatives with a rudimentary understanding of BADD’s love of our beloved hobby. That’s the flaming torches BADD, not the flaming dragons BADD of more local renown.

It went downhill from there. They ended up sitting down my parents for a 'talk', which went about as you think it would. I was lucky enough to be born to a man and woman who have traveled the world and gained an open perspective on all things human, and after a short dialogue we reconciled, with my position as a Dungeons and Dragons player an acceptable one.

I lived with the scars of that incident for a year, becoming a closet gamer, secluding myself from outside society when it comes to gaming. Once again fate smiled on me, however, for I soon found another player who was not so clandestine. More, he was willing to announce his pastime to any that asked what a ‘hit roll’ was, and openly laughed at his ‘geekiness’. After a year under his tutelage, as a DM of his game, I too took up this perspective of our common hobby, and will not hide it. Those who know are likely to also know that I took a semester's worth of creditless Team Sports for fun, out swim half the school’s Aquatics team, took Theater Club, and am willing to risk my grade point average in front of a few hundred people if only I can elicit a laugh or two. I’m comfortable with who I am, and that has been a rare enough occurrence through my short life that I will not let another batter down that wall of self again.

So there is a view from a traveling high school teen, living in a country where D&D is a hobby that has few who would uphold it, but not for a lack of courage. No, the only problem here is finding the few people of gaming temperament; there is no need to hide in the closet, because the outside world is indifferent to the hobby in general.

Now if only I could get more players!

 

[Alaska Roberts]

I would also like to have a copy of your report when your done : ) I think its gotta be good with all the input from here.

Thanks
Alaska

 

[Desdichado]

1) military history/ war gaming
2) fantasy literature
3) knowledge of real-world mythology
4) knowledge of social sciences
5) knowledge of physical sciences
6) knowledge of real-world mysticism

• Very interested in military history. Little to no interest in war gaming.
• Very interested in fantasy literature.
• Substantial knowledge of real-world (especially European) mythology.
• Very little real knowledge or interest in social sciences with the exception of history, linguistics and economics (my undergrad major.)
• Passing knowledge and interest in a variety of physical sciences including anthropology, archeaology, astronomy, physics, chemistry, and more. I wouldn't consider this my strength, though.
• Little knowledge or interest in real-world mysticism.

 

[Olidammara]

Most common folk in society treat low-level gamers (say, 1st-4th level) with gleeful disdain. They'll usually chase the gamers with pitchforks and slay them as cannon fodder for easy experience points. By about 6th level, though, gamers can take care of themselves in a fair fight against even small groups of people. At that point, society generally ignores gamers and hopes that they'll just quietly waddle away without a fuss. When a gamer reaches 13th or 14th level, though, the dynamic shifts dramatically -- then you'll see high-level gamers actively playing with their massive destructive power against defenseless neighbors and small animals. A 16th-level gamer is usually feared by society, and either shunned or worshipped, depending on his personality.

 

[Sodalis]

Zander:
If you haven't already, you should check out the book Shared Fantasy: Role-Playing Games as Social Worlds by Gary Alan Fine. It's a sociological/ethnographic study of RPGers in the late 1970's.

That is thebook that I am talking baout in my previous post. It is where I got the list of predispositions, and also much background information about the game itself.

The other links I will look into. Thanks a bunch. And I can send you a copy of the paper when it is finished. You and Alaska Roberts.

Thanks for offering to help, but the paper is nothing big- just a ten page explanatory essay on an activity that you (by you , I mean I) feel is deemed deviant by mainstream society. Growing up, I always knew (by movies and rumors) that most people see gaming (especially DND) as a deviant hobby, and since I enjoy it so much, why not take the time to learn a little more about it- on the school's dime of course.

Olidammara:
Most common folk in society treat low-level gamers (say, 1st-4th level) with gleeful disdain. They'll usually chase the gamers with pitchforks and slay them as cannon fodder for easy experience points. By about 6th level, though, gamers can take care of themselves in a fair fight against even small groups of people. At that point, society generally ignores gamers and hopes that they'll just quietly waddle away without a fuss. When a gamer reaches 13th or 14th level, though, the dynamic shifts dramatically -- then you'll see high-level gamers actively playing with their massive destructive power against defenseless neighbors and small animals. A 16th-level gamer is usually feared by society, and either shunned or worshipped, depending on his personality.

That is just beautiful. I have to use that.... if not only for reference...

 

[Henry]

Henry here, gamer since 1980.

1) military history/ war gaming
strong interest in military history and history in general; passing interest in war gaming.

2) fantasy literature
Definitely. Preferential to all other fiction.

3) knowledge of real-world mythology
Extensive. Great fan of norse and greek religion, and passing interest in Hindu gods.

4) knowledge of social sciences
Social sciences? What are those? I have an interest as it applies to history (anthropology, cultural history, etc.) but ZERO interest in Modern Sociology, which I consider to be flawed in many ways (which I get into debates over with my wife, who is a teacher)

5) knowledge of physical sciences
Extensive; was once in training for B.S. Chemistry.

6) knowledge of real-world mysticism
knowledge, yes; fascination, no.