Out of Healing Surges - what now?

[FunkBGR]

I started my 4th Edition game on Friday, and as we came to a close, one of the players announced he was out of healing surges, and that they should rest for the day.

Problem is, they're not in a situation where resting is really possible. They're stuck in a extremely hostile environment (edit: There's a time limit kind of thing too). Also, all of the other party members have a number of surges left.

It was a combination of bad luck and encounters that dropped him to this point. They're 3 encounters in, with a couple more to go. Has anybody noticed any rules I can show to my player to help him out?

(In 3.0/3.5, I'd just add more healing potions - but that doesn't work in this case. I'm hesitant to insert potions that give healing surges also, since that seems to be the "resource" to manage now).

 

[nittanytbone]

Sucks to be him.

Seriously, who announces, "I'm out, we're done?" What happened to, "Hey, I'm running low, let me give you some advance warning," or, "Hey, I'm out, I need to hang out in the back next encounter."

If there's a cleric or paladin around then they may be able to use CLW or Lay on Hands if necessary. Otherwise the whiny player can take the resource management lesson to heart and play it safe for the next encounter, using ranged attacks and otherwise staying out of the thick of things. Additionally, a leader may be around who can grant some temporary HP or other buffs to help keep the worn out character safe.

To me, part of 4E seems to be working as a team. The defender MUST be taking hits because the defender has a boatload of healing surges. The leaders and strikers can take some hits, but they have less all-day staying power, so if they are out on the front line all the time they'll run out of gas too fast. And if your wizard is in continuous harm's way, there are many other problems.

Out of curiosity is said character a rogue?

 

[Argyuile]

Sucks to be him.

Seriously, who announces, "I'm out, we're done?" What happened to, "Hey, I'm running low, let me give you some advance warning," or, "Hey, I'm out, I need to hang out in the back next encounter."

If there's a cleric or paladin around then they may be able to use CLW or Lay on Hands if necessary. Otherwise the whiny player can take the resource management lesson to heart and play it safe for the next encounter, using ranged attacks and otherwise staying out of the thick of things. Additionally, a leader may be around who can grant some temporary HP or other buffs to help keep the worn out character safe.

To me, part of 4E seems to be working as a team. The defender MUST be taking hits because the defender has a boatload of healing surges. The leaders and strikers can take some hits, but they have less all-day staying power, so if they are out on the front line all the time they'll run out of gas too fast. And if your wizard is in continuous harm's way, there are many other problems.

Out of curiosity is said character a rogue?

PPPPPPP Poor Prior Planning Produces Piss Poor Performance

 

[fba827]

Yeah, I know this sounds like tough love but I have to agree with the previous responses.

Although I'm sure it was the result of bad luck and such, it simply 'sucks for him'

Unless they all want to camp (which causes a problem for their location, time limit and other factors) then they need to press on. It's a resource, like hp and powers that he needs to manage and unlike a computer game, they can't simply zone out to save and rest but instead must press onwards.

Edit: To add something more useful to what I just said ...
As far as I know there is no rule that you can point to that will help him out (surges only recharge at extended rest).

I would, however, remind that the character should realize he is out of that 'extra gusto' to press on so boldly and therefore he will want to change his tactics as they continue (perhaps switching to ranged attacks and staying behind the line etc).

 

[essenbee]

The character is in trouble and will probably need to hang back for the next couple of encounters, until they reach a safe area. He could be killed in either of those encounters. That's the game, sorry to say.

 

[Obryn]

And people thought healing surges meant nobody was ever in danger...

In short, he made bad decisions. He may very well suffer the consequences of those bad decisions.

-O

 

[Kraydak]

Unless circumstances are exceptional (the world will be destroyed if you don't finish the adventure within the next few game-world hours) the only sane response to running out of healing surges is to try and disengage. The party may need to rethink tactics for the future, but for the moment, the choice is clear, even if it means mission-failure.

Yes, that does mean that if the enemy gets extra-lucky on attack roles against one PC, the party may suffer a mission-kill even if the rest of the party is completely unscathed. An unshareable healing mechanism (healing surges) means the party only has as many healing surges as the weakest link.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

In short, he made bad decisions. He may very well suffer the consequences of those bad decisions.

I'm sorry, where in the thread did we come to understand that he "made bad decisions"? Because I don't see it in any of the OP's posts at all, only as an assumption in a couple of posts by others.

Indeed the OP specifically states that "bad luck and encounters" caused the situation, rather than poor choices on the part of the character.

It's also not been made clear whether the character with the problem is a Defender or not. My immediate assumptions (as we're all making assumptions here) would be that he was, to be in such a position and saying such a thing.

I think people who are failing to take into account the possible actions/inactions of the rest of the party (such as the Leader failing to boost the guy's Healing Surge uses), and possible bad design of the adventure on the part of the GM.

Whilst I certainly agree that on the basis of my reading of the rules, there's nothing strictly within the rules to be done (and anything that could be done outside the existing rules is potentially Pandora's Box-ish), I think that blaming the player (without evidence or consideration) and calling him a "whiner" and so on is precisely the sort of monkey business that leads to role-players having a bad reputation as social performers. The advice for him to hang back, though, is essentially sound. It might be a bit of an upset if he is the Defender, though.

What I'd consider doing, as the GM, is thinking about altering my adventure so that they did have a chance to rest after all, unless I completely couldn't imagine such a situation, in which case I'd make a note to avoid forcing such situations in future adventures. Perhaps the OP could explain the situation further and we might be able to offer ideas in this vein.

 

[Surgoshan]

Well, they can't rest, so he'll just have to be careful.

 

[FunkBGR]

Well, this wasn't exactly the response I was expecting, but still - thanks for the responses so far, I really appreciate them!

As the DM, here's some stuff I've thought of that I can maybe do to help the situation on my end:

Some mechanical solutions I've thought of on my own:
- Paladin NPC has lay on hands - he saves it for the guy
- Paladin PC has lay on hands - he saves it for the guy
- Dwarven armor as a magic item lets you heal as a surge w/o spending

Homebrew:
- Find a "Symbol of CLW" (functions as a wand, but uses CLW for its power)
- Create a magic item called a "Symbol of Healing" or something, that has a similar effect

Situational solution:
- Kind of a cop out, but let him swap his first level feat for Durable
- The module I'm running is a 3.5 conversion of a 1st lvl module. It's a murder mystery. The writer recognized the deadliness of 1st lvl in 3.5 especially in this situation, and put Cure Light Wounds potions everywhere. Perhaps I can emulate something similar, and have players regain healing surges slowly as they discover evidence of the plot - sort of a "okay, we're getting closer, let's keep pushing on". I think this emulates the 'HP aren't just wounds' quite a bit.

Thoughts?