Outsiders mop the floor with spellcasters

[Zappo]

Elementals are very dangerous to a fighter of the same CR, and undead are a rogue's bane. The idea that not all classes are equally good against all foes is rather common. My party spellcasters deal with outsiders by taking Spell Penetration and hoping for the best. This isn't so bad; tanar'ri for example tend to have SR equal to CR + 8, so a wizard of the same level with GSP only needs to roll a 4. Even if you only have SP, and I think that taking SP once is a good investment, you need to roll a 6. That's a problem, but it isn't crippling.

 

[Shade]

Keep in mind that even though most outsiders have spell resistance, they don't all have great spell resistance. Demons, for example, only have spell resistance equal to their CR + 8. That gives a spellcaster of equivalent level greater than 50% chance of beating their spell resistance. Factor in Spell Penetration or any other effect that increases the chances of overcoming spell resistance, and it becomes even less of a factor. The rockin' damage reduction of most fiends makes them equally deadly to melee types.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Buff and abjurations. Then stay out of the way, lobbing the occassional Magic Missile. It probably won't work, but hey, its only a first level spell!

The Auld Grump

 

[Bihor]

"Research is key" you say, tell that to my players.
I give them access to the great library of Glantris, monolithe of knowledge apears every where (giving free knowledge check and spell), every body use them exept the players.

they keep geting there but kicked.

 

[William Ronald]

"Research is key" you say, tell that to my players.
I give them access to the great library of Glantris, monolithe of knowledge apears every where (giving free knowledge check and spell), every body use them exept the players.

they keep geting there but kicked.

Maybe having an NPC, whom they respect, either doing research or urging them to do research might help. To quote Sun Tzu from The Art of War : "Know your enemy and know yourself, and you will win a thousand battles."

In addition to spell penetration, the archmage PRC can gain spell power under the high arcana power. This increases the effective caster level by +1 for purposes of damage dice, range, and caster level checks for the sacrifice of a single 5th level spell slot. So, adding one level of spell power in the archmage slot with spell penetration can give the caster an edge in fighting outsiders. Similar, substituting elements for a spell might help. (One of my favorites is to substitute sonic damage for other types of damage.)

Also, conjuration spells might help. For example, summoned monsters can help a party -- at least by causing outsiders to focus on other opponents -- as well as helping fighters and rogues get those important flanking bonuses. Also, players of spell casters can perhaps ask their DMs if they can create magic items that help in spell penetration --- items that enhance wisdom, charisma, or intelligence do help with spell DCs.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

[sigh]

All I'm asking for is eight hours' sleep and an hour to prepare before we have to save the world

-Hyp.

Amen, brother! In the current adventure I'm playing in, the DM has thrown bone devils, a death slaad and now a glabrezu demon at us. All of them have different weaknesses, and for the devils and demon, there was absolutely no opportunity to prepare anything (the devils ambushed us, and the demon has just stepped through a portal in the wall of an NPC's house). It's not as though my wizard (a loremaster with Knowledge (the planes) +18) doesn't know the typical weaknesses of outsiders. It's just she can never leverage that knowledge. I think she'll just stand back and cheer the paladin and fighter/cleric on.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Plane Sailing]

Outsiders (the creature type), by design have:

- spell resistance;
- energy resistance;
- good saves across the board.

Note that it isn't energy resistance across the board, so it is merely a case of targetting the weaker energy resistance.

 

[Caliban]

Conjuration spells don't allow spell resistance, and if you are allowed material from the Complete Arcane, the "Orb of Force" spell is brutally efficient.

No spell resistance, no energy resistance, no save...

Barring that, there is Web, Grease, Glitterdust, Evard's Black Tentacles, Summoned Monsters, etc.

 

[nimisgod]

Outsiders can be bad-asses especially when advanced/templated, IME, but some of the converted outsiders don't have a lot of HD so HP attrition works. Besides the excellent suggestions of Caliban and the posters above me, there are the Searing Spell and Piercing Cold metamagic feats that allow you to bypass energy resistance and immunities (sort of). Add this to the no SR conjuration spells from CArc and you should be golden in your outsider-killing activities.

And to reiterate some of the other suggestions, if you can't blast, buff, de-buff or do some battle-field control (walls, black tentacles, etc).

 

[Rackhir]

Also, conjuration spells might help. For example, summoned monsters can help a party -- at least by causing outsiders to focus on other opponents -- as well as helping fighters and rogues get those important flanking bonuses. Also, players of spell casters can perhaps ask their DMs if they can create magic items that help in spell penetration --- items that enhance wisdom, charisma, or intelligence do help with spell DCs.

Augment summoning is a good feat if you are going this route, since you are getting +4/+4 to Strength and Con for an extra +2 to hit/damage and an extra 2 Hp/HD, which can be especially useful with some of the summonable vermin that have relatively high HD. (Monstrous Spider, Colossal has 32HD).

Animal Growth on dire creatures gives a whole bunch of benefits +8 Str, +4 Con, +4 Saves and dr 10/magic.

Another of the Archmage High arcana abilities is energy substitution, so you can make that fireball anything you want in terms of energy. The miniatures handbook has feats for specific energy type substitions.

Of course there is also greater spell focus and greater spell penetration if you are having a tough time.