oversized bastard sword use without proficiency

[Zadam]

I'm actually a little hazy on the rules of weapon size, could someone please confirm for me:

(In the following examples, imagine the character has the appropriate weapon feats to actually use the weapons)

1) A medium sized character can use a longsword one handed without penalty. Does this mean the same sword can be used by a Small character 2-handed without penalty?

2) If a Small character wields a Medium long sword one handed he takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls correct? Or can't he even use it one handed at all?

3) Can a Small character wield a Medium dagger one handed without penalty?

4) Can a Large character wield a Medium Greatsword in one hand without penalty?

5) If a Medium character can wield a Large Longsword 2 handed without penalty, then shouldn't a character who is proficient with Bastard sword (and can therefore wield a Medium Bastard Sword in one hand) be able to wield a Large Bastard Sword in 2 hands without penalty?

Sorry if some of the questions are a little dumb, I haven't played D&D since 2E and have only recently started getting back into it, so some things are a little hazy to me still...

Thanks for any replies in advance!

 

[Hypersmurf]

1) A medium sized character can use a longsword one handed without penalty. Does this mean the same sword can be used by a Small character 2-handed without penalty?

No. A longsword is a one-handed weapon. If a Small character wields a Medium longsword, it's 'shifted up' on category, and he treats it as a two-handed weapon. He can wield it in two hands, but he takes a -2 penalty for inappropriate size.

2) If a Small character wields a Medium long sword one handed he takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls correct? Or can't he even use it one handed at all?

Can't use it at all. For him, it's a two-handed weapon.

3) Can a Small character wield a Medium dagger one handed without penalty?

For him, it's a one-handed weapon, so he can wield it in one hand (and Power Attack with it!), but he takes a -2 penalty. (He also can't use it with Weapon Finesse, since it's not a Light weapon for him.)

4) Can a Large character wield a Medium Greatsword in one hand without penalty?

It's treated as a one-handed weapon, so he can wield it in one hand, but he takes a -2 penalty.

5) If a Medium character can wield a Large Longsword 2 handed without penalty...

Invalid premise

-Hyp.

 

[Zadam]

Thanks for the speedy response... It all makes sence now! My invallid assumption was that the -2 applied only if for example a smaller character tried to use the weapon in the same way (eg one handed) as a medium character. Now I get it... -2 applies no matter what, and the "light->one handed->2 handed" shift happens also no matter what.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Now I get it... -2 applies no matter what, and the "light->one handed->2 handed" shift happens also no matter what.

Right.

Until you start looking at the Powerful Build racial feature (Expanded Psionics Handbook, Races of Stone), or the Monkey Grip feat (Complete Warrior), which break some of those rules.

-Hyp.

 

[P0L]

When my munchkiny power-gamer nightmare of a player said that his warforged fighter-juggernaut would have the "Exotic weapon prof." Feat I tought "Here comes the spiked chain...". I was relieved when he stated that he would be proficient with bastard swords.

And then he said he would also take monkey grip....

I hate players who bend the rules just to get a numerical advantage.. this guy trashed most of my NPCs and unbalanced his party.

The story ended when I found out he was CHEATING!!, he had "forgotten" to substract his racial penalties...and then his abilities had misteriously creeped up.. and then he had made some "mistakes" when calculating his attack and damage...

I ruled that he had to downzise his abilities to the ORIGINAL point buy and then penalized him with a -2 luck penalty to a random ability... when the random ability came up beign STRENGHT he almost started crying... that I was RUINING his fighter, who now ONLY had 16STR 12DEX and 18CON...

That's when I stopped DMing him and his friends (who were more of the same...)

Just a rant...

 

[IcyCool]

Since there doesn't seem to be a good firm rules interpretation, does anyone think it's overpowered to allow non-proficient use of a bastard sword in one hand at a -4 penalty?

I don't see why it would be overpowered. That -4 to hit is really going to hurt. I'm going to ignore the FAQ in this instance and just use the weapon chart. According to the chart, the bastard sword is an exotic one-handed weapon that can be used two-handed as a martial weapon. This is sort of entering house-rules turf, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I don't see why it would be overpowered. That -4 to hit is really going to hurt. I'm going to ignore the FAQ in this instance and just use the weapon chart. According to the chart, the bastard sword is an exotic one-handed weapon that can be used two-handed as a martial weapon. This is sort of entering house-rules turf, so I'll leave it at that.

How is it approaching House Rules territory to follow what's written in the Core Rules? The FAQ has been wrong before...

 

[IcyCool]

How is it approaching House Rules territory to follow what's written in the Core Rules? The FAQ has been wrong before...

CYA my good man, CYA.

 

[Caeleddin]

POL - I feel your pain. Wait until you get a Half-Giant Ranger with two large longswords And walk into battle doing 6x 2d6+strength at level 11......


As for the Bastard Sword (how I HATE that accursed name), I would say that it is a 2hd weapon. Therefore, a small character cannot use it, period. You can use it EFFECTIVELY in one hand as it is not fully in the 100% 2hd weapon category, if you train in it and has the strength to do it (thus the feat and the Str requirement), if you are medium sized.

Historically, the Bastard Sword is the Broadsword. I don't know what Gary Gygax was smoking when he came up with it, but the long heavy blades that the medieval knights used was the Broadsword, not the Longsword (IIRC, historically, the longsword as described in D&D never really existed). They used it one handed, but it took a LOT of training as the blade was designed with a "forward balance"TM (ie., the balance point of the sword is on the blade side of the crosspiece). This meant that when you smack someone with it when mounted, it created an extra drag towards the arc of the swing and when you hit someone, it will go in harder because of the forward balance. Try smacking something while holding a baseball bat near the middle where the balance is, and smacking the same thing while holding it at the grip and you will see what I mean about the extra force, then use it in a two handed grip and you will see what they are trying to say with the whole one-handed, two-handed nonsense. The feat represents the training needed to effectively stop and manouevre the Broadsword in one hand and the Str means that you can actually stop it and reverse it as needed without needing a complete circle to do so.

My other rant about weapons in D&D is that their Scimitar is a Sabre. Their Falchion is the Scimitar. As protrayed in the 3.5 Player's Handbook, that is *mutters*