D&D (2024) Pact of the Chain broken at low levels?

[prototype00]

What is there to debate? It takes a single Magic Action to cast Find Familiar, and that Magic Action requires you to maintain concentration while continuing to take the Magic Action for 60 minutes.

Per the definition in the rules glossary on pg 371 of the 2024 PhB, if you want to cast a spell with a lengthy cast time you must take the Magic Action (that is a different instance every time of the Magic Action) on each turn of the casting.

If the ability says that it takes a Magic Action to cast then it occurs on that turn after you have taken said action (much like how the general consensus for how Divine Intervention works).

 

[DrJawaPhD]

If the ability says that it takes a Magic Action to cast then it occurs on that turn after you have taken said action (much like how the general consensus for how Divine Intervention works).

How do you figure that you automatically complete a Magic Action in 1 turn? Neither Pact of the Chain nor Divine Intervention state this. They only say that you take the Magic Action. Now go read Magic Action: the definition of Magic Action specifically says that if you cast a spell with a casting time over a minute then it takes the full cast time.

The "general consensus" for how Divine Intervention works is apparently the consensus of people who have not yet read the definition of Magic Action and are assuming that Actions always take 1 turn (since in 2014 rules this was always true, unlike in 2024 rules).

 

[pukunui]

How do you figure that you automatically complete a Magic Action in 1 turn? Neither Pact of the Chain nor Divine Intervention state this. They only say that you take the Magic Action. Now go read Magic Action: the definition of Magic Action specifically says that if you cast a spell with a casting time over a minute then it takes the full cast time.

No, it doesn't. It says you have to repeatedly take the Magic action each round while casting the spell. Repeatedly taking the Magic action each round over a specific period of time is not the same thing as saying that you take the action once and it requires the full amount of time to complete.

Therefore, it is safe to assume that Divine Intervention does indeed mean a single, one-round instance of the Magic action.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

No, it doesn't. It says you have to repeatedly take the Magic action each round while casting the spell. Repeatedly taking the Magic action each round over a specific period of time is not the same thing as saying that you take the action once and it requires the full amount of time to complete.

Therefore, it is safe to assume that Divine Intervention does indeed mean a single, one-round instance of the Magic action.

Pact of the Chain and Divine Intervention both say that you take a Magic Action to cast a spell. Ok so now what the hell is a Magic Action, turn to page 371. Magic Action specifically says that if you cast a spell with a cast time longer than 1 minute, you have to continue taking the Magic Action for the entire duration.

I don't know how that could be any more clear, but I guess we'll just have to wait for WotC to post Sage Advice on the topic. No point in posting any further about it here I guess, I've said my piece and no one will be convinced until WotC says something official.

 

[prototype00]

How do you figure that you automatically complete a Magic Action in 1 turn? Neither Pact of the Chain nor Divine Intervention state this. They only say that you take the Magic Action. Now go read Magic Action: the definition of Magic Action specifically says that if you cast a spell with a casting time over a minute then it takes the full cast time.

The "general consensus" for how Divine Intervention works is apparently the consensus of people who have not yet read the definition of Magic Action and are assuming that Actions always take 1 turn (since in 2014 rules this was always true, unlike in 2024 rules).

As per pg 236 of the 2024 PhB under casting times it also says that if you cast a spell with a casting time of one minute or more, you have to take the magic action on each of the turns casting.

Hence by following the RAW, the answer to your question is “less than a round” since you have to take it again (that is another magic action) on the next round of casting.

As to exactly how long it takes (and I’m sure we’re going to get bonked on the noggin by the devs for asking this one, but so be it), it is not defined by RAW but the name suggests that a Magic Action will take an Action worth of game time (“It’s in the name, innit?” JCraw, maybe) which is in line of the RAW stating that it lasts for less than a round.

 

[ECMO3]

As per pg 236 of the 2024 PhB under casting times it also says that if you cast a spell with a casting time of one minute or more, you have to take the magic action on each of the turns casting.

Hence by following the RAW, the answer to your question is “less than a round” since you have to take it again (that is another magic action) on the next round of casting.

That is not how I read it. I read it as you need to take THE magic action (as in the one and only magic action you are taking) on EACH of your turns.

You have to continue taking the one magic action you are taking. That has to be the action on each of your turns.

Kind of like if you are crafting a Heavy crossbow which takes 5 days. - To complete the Heavy Crossbow you need to spend THE day crafting for EACH of those 5 days.

If I start working on a Longsword on day 2 I don't have a finished heavy crossbow on day 5.

 

[prototype00]

That is not how I read it. I read it as you need to take THE magic action (as in the one and only magic action you are taking) on EACH of your turns.

You have to continue taking the one magic action you are taking. That has to be the action on each of your turns.

Kind of like if you are crafting a Heavy crossbow which takes 5 days. - To complete the Heavy Crossbow you need to spend THE day crafting for EACH of those 5 days.

If I start working on a Longsword on day 2 I don't have a finished heavy crossbow on day 5.

You are more than welcome to your viewpoint.

Should it be a bone of contention, however, my main issue with your interpretation is that would they not have to phrase it as “A Magic Action over X adjacent turns” if they want to preserve commonly understood English terminology?

You are Crafting the Crossbow over X time is the non-labored, normal, way to say what you wrote, is it not?

In any event, we shall see what the tides of Errata dredge up from the sea of Developer truth in time.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

What is there to debate? It takes a single Magic Action to cast Find Familiar, and that Magic Action requires you to maintain concentration while continuing to take the Magic Action for 60 minutes.

I am becoming unsure of that. Why state it at all if that was the intend.
The magic initiate feat etc don't state that you cast it in a single action.

You probably have to accept that the imp etc is just unkillable. Kill the master instead.

 

[ECMO3]

You are more than welcome to your viewpoint.

Should it be a bone of contention, however, my main issue with your interpretation is that would they not have to phrase it as “A Magic Action over X adjacent turns” if they want to preserve commonly understood English terminology?

No because it is talking about the action you take on your turn and specifically the one you are using for the spell. It is specific - you need to take THE magic action, you know the one you are using to cast Find Familiar ... not any random magic action.

The entire PHB is poorly worded and I don't think they spent much time considering interpretation like we are talking about here. I think they wrote down what they thought they intended, did not playtest most of it and then the editor was focused on grammar, not rules or interpretation.

There are a lot of examples where it appears obvious they did not consider interpretation (Goliath grappling, grappling movement, dual wielding and weapon switching ...) and I think it is safe to assume this applies across the board.

You are Crafting the Crossbow over X time is the non-labored, normal, way to say what you wrote, is it not?

Yes, but the entire turn and action construct are as well.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

As to exactly how long it takes (and I’m sure we’re going to get bonked on the noggin by the devs for asking this one, but so be it), it is not defined by RAW but the name suggests that a Magic Action will take an Action worth of game time (“It’s in the name, innit?” JCraw, maybe) which is in line of the RAW stating that it lasts for less than a round.

But it IS defined by RAW that the Magic Action takes more than one turn if you use the Magic Action to cast a spell with a cast time of 1 minute or longer. It literally says so right there on Page 371.

Everyone who is confused is just stuck in the assumption that "Action" means 6 seconds, and refusing to read the words as written on Magic Action.