D&D (2024) Pact of the Chain broken at low levels?

[prototype00]

But it IS defined by RAW that the Magic Action takes more than one turn if you use the Magic Action to cast a spell with a cast time of 1 minute or longer. It literally says so right there on Page 371.

Everyone who is confused is just stuck in the assumption that "Action" means 6 seconds, and refusing to read the words as written on Magic Action.

That is what pg 371 says. As I pointed out, it has two use cases of “The Magic Action”, either you cast a spell/activating a Magic item requiring an action in which you just need to take one Magic Action for it to be completed.

Or you cast a spell with a longer cast time in which case you need to take the Magic Action on Each Turn of said longer casting.

As I said (though I am not a philologist) that you have to take an action on each turn of a certain period indicates to me that you have to take said action multiple times corresponding to the number of turns.

If you don’t believe so, we shall agree to disagree. I only wished to show my work and quote from the original documents.

 

[Baumi]

For the record, I do belive that it is 1 hour to cast Find Familiar, even for the Pact of the Chain Warlock. But I have seen multiple posts and Videos where they mentioned that you can cast ist with a single action .. they might be wrong, but then WOTC have to clarify it since if they get it wrong, then many groups will get it wrong also.

What irritate me is why they even mention that they can cast it with a magic action, instead of simply saying they can cast it without a spell slot. That would made it completely clear. Also there is Divine Intervention, where it is similar, but even mentiones that you cast it as part of the same action and in an Inverview, Crawford said that Divine Intervention is ment to cast Raise Dead in a single Round..

 

[prototype00]

For the record, I do belive that it is 1 hour to cast Find Familiar, even for the Pact of the Chain Warlock. But I have seen multiple posts and Videos where they mentioned that you can cast ist with a single action .. they might be wrong, but then WOTC have to clarify it since if they get it wrong, then many groups will get it wrong also.

What irritate me is why they even mention that they can cast it with a magic action, instead of simply saying they can cast it without a spell slot. That would made it completely clear. Also there is Divine Intervention, where it is similar, but even mentiones that you cast it as part of the same action and in an Inverview, Crawford said that Divine Intervention is ment to cast Raise Dead in a single Round..

So… you acknowledge that Divine Intervention is:

1. A Magic Action

That can

2. Cast spells with normal casting times longer than one round in an action (a Magic Action, no less) because the text says it does.

But somehow you do not think this is the case for Pact of the Chain Warlocks and Find Familiar?

Hmmm. I have nothing that I can possibly say to resolve this paradox, it is beyond my ability.

 

[Baumi]

It is not clear since they are worded completely different, but do similar things.

With Divine Intervention you use your magic action to choose an spell, then cast it as part of the same action .. so you don't cast it directly with it and it directly mentions that it is part of it in the text. Meanwhile the Pact of the Chain just says that you cast it with a magic action .. a thing that is defined in the Glossary.

 

[Baumi]

A follow up question .. does he need the 10GP Component? The feature doesn't say anything about that..

 

[mellored]

Not sure it helps, but the playtest said
"can cast it as an action"

A follow up question .. does he need the 10GP Component? The feature doesn't say anything about that..

If nothing removes it, then it's still there.

So only rich warlocks can clear a low level dungeon.

 

[Baumi]

Oh I overlooked something important. Find Famliar is a Ritual, so it already doesn't cost a spell slot! So if the Warlock would need nearly the full time (60 vs 70 min compared to the ritual) and components, he would have nearly no advantage compared to someone who learned the spell the normal way.

Except of course the types for creatures, but if thats all that changed, then they could have written it much simpler like you learn Find Familiar and can cast additional creature types...

 

[Thommy H-H]

I suspect the logic is that if a Warlock is going Pact of the Chain, then the familiar - being more powerful and capable - is part of the equation for class balance, whereas Find Familiar for another class is balanced solely against spells of the same level (and it can't fight, so whatever). Chain Pact Warlocks therefore need to always have their familiar running around to punch their weight, and since familiars (even the tougher chain pact ones) die so easily to AoE damage and the like, they need to be able to get it back without too much fuss.

The Beast Master Ranger having the ability to resurrect its Primal Companion essentially for free is much the same, except in that case the beast is tough enough to stick around for most of a combat and deal the requisite damage, so it's a post-combat resurrection.

 

[Xeviat]

Wasn't there a template version of Find Familiar in one of the playtests that could be up cast? Didn't we learn our lesson with the Conjure spells that monster stats are not designed for PCs? 20 HP for a level 1 familiar is nuts, but then it doesn't scale.